Brian Roberts Update

[TheBenjamin]

This is third hand news, so take it as you will.

This is a message I got from my friend

I've confirmed the package with all insiders, and I am still trying to get a hold of him. He hasn't been on all day. My guy has been right and a bunch of things, and I expect him to be right again.

once again for guys who just came in, this is the deal.

Orioles Recieve
Gallagher
Marshall
Cedeno

Cubs Recieve
Roberts


Hopefully this gets done soon, so we can move onto bigger and better things.

BTW, I won't be on until around 6:30 CT tomorrow, as I have a busy day. I will be communicating with my guy though.


today he sent me word again saying

Apparently the Cubs and Orioles exchanged paperwork and McPhail sent the paperwork to Angelos.


so if this is all true, we could see a deal by the end of tonight, or sometime in the next day or two

[Drockvb]

I can live with this. :)

[Ivy Killa]

I hope this is true.....I'd be bummed about losing Marshall but if we dont have to give up Fuld or Colvin then this is a nice deal

[TheBenjamin]

i can live with it, but id rather keep marshall and give up Fuld or COlvin. we need pitching

[SkullKey]

I dream line-up I've fantasized (sp?) about for a while (composed of current or reasonably posible Cubs):

2B: B. Roberts (could he repeat 50 SB and 85+% success in 2008?)
RF: K. Fukudome (best description of his offensive game is that whomever follows him will get up to the plate and see him on 1B or 2B 40% of the time. Sweet)
1B: D. Lee (best baserunner among big men.)
LF: A. Soriano (what a difference it would make if he would relax and just hit from here.)
3B: A. Ramirez (or Soriano)
-C: G. Soto (a mystery - what will he hit? .260 or .310? .285, solid OBP and 18 HR would be a delight. I think he will get lots of RBI opportunities.)
CF: F. Pie (or Fuld or ? Let these kids concentrate on defense and relax into the offense.)
SS: R. Theriot (just turned 28 and an established Major Leaguer. Should be getting to his peak game at this point. No reason he can't bump his career numbers of .276 and .341 up about .285-.290 and .365 or so - which would reflect his last 3 years in the Minors - very "do-able". His career 87% SB success is exceptional.)

I think Soto, Pie/Fuld/? and Theriot might really set the table well for the more established RBI guys in the rest of the line-up. Several Cubs pitchers hit effectively as well.

A very solid line-up that could be exceptional.

I very much hope your source is correct it would make this Cub fan very happy. Hate to lose Gallagher and Marshall but you have to give to get.

(By the way 'Riot - congratulations to your alma mater on a National Championship.)

[Drew]

I would love that line-up. Quite a few potential All-Stars at the top of that order.

[ryno4ever]

Skullkey, that looks like a pretty solid lineup to me! I do think that if we get Roberts (who will lead off, I'm assuming), you will see Soriano down between Lee and Ram. There is some mighty strong protection for almost each of those players.... and then when you have Big Z on the mound.... and at the plate....

I'm really getting anxious for the season to start now!

[Drew]

I'm crossing my fingers and hoping this deal gets done soon.

[ryno4ever]

I have a feeling that we will have the preliminary announcement soon. Hendry obviously opened the roster spot by trading Pagan because a deal was imminent.... I really hope Murton gets to be part of the package as I do like the kid and I think he can have a better career somewhere else where he will get more playing time. I liked him as a Cub, but there is no way I would want him out there over our other outfielders now! (Except perhaps the big question mark in center field, which I don't believe Murt could play anyway).

I went over to the Cubs.com board and someone posted on there that they heard the deal was done on XM radio....and that it was Murton, Marshall, and Gallagher, and we kept Cedeno, HOWEVER... I tend to take what I read in the National Enquirer a little more serious than what I read on the Cubs.com message board!

[ryno4ever]

I was just on the Orioles Hangout message board, and they too are saying that the papers are at the MLB office waiting for ole' Bud's approval..... perhaps we will get an announcement in the morning.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57261&page=15

[taz57]

This would really bolster the lineup if it's true. It would give Lou the lattitude to use a true leadoff man and a good OBP guy in the two hole to set the table for the boppers. It could be the best 1-2 combination the Cubs have had since the daily double, Dernier/Sandberg. I think Piniella sees DeRosa as more valuable in the super sub role.

[TheBenjamin]

The Waiting is the Hardest Part


speaks volumns.... waiting for the Cubs to win, and for this trade to finally be done

[Ivy Killa]

Too bad i have to go to work......now if we get Roberts i wont know until after 5

[TheBenjamin]

The Chicago Tribune's Phil Rogers believes a deal sending Brian Roberts to the Cubs is "almost certainly going to happen."

Rogers believes the current deal includes Sean Marshall, along with Sean Gallagher and Ronny Cedeno. If that's the case, it's a pretty good package for a second baseman with two years left on his deal, and it'd make it easier for the Orioles to send Erik Bedard to Seattle without getting Brandon Morrow in return. The Cubs would be giving up a large chunk of their pitching depth, so they might have to add another veteran to battle Ryan Dempster and Jason Marquis for a rotation spot. Kevin Hart would be their primary insurance with both Marshall and Gallagher gone.
Source: Chicago Tribune

[Leprechaun]

i feel great about roberts...

cedeno im sorry you've had your chances to show some life and when you did it didnt last long good luck with your career i think you will flourish better elsewhere

marshall i really had high anticipation for you but once you got hurt it seems you won't make it back to the level you were at for a bit and we are in a win now situation...

galagher... now this is the part of the trade that i think would hurt the most, i really believe this kid has something going for him atleast hed be in the american league

whatever happens with a trade i hope it happens soon becuz we will NEED another SP... getting rid of marshall and galagher puts ALOT of confidence in dempster and marquis becuz we know wood will not return to starter as a cub, guzman wont be ready till 09, smardzija is a couple years out, I like kevin hart out of the BP, and i think wed rather deal with dempster than have mateo start

wiht skull keys lineup i think wed have a VERY strong bench too

leading the way with Derosa, Ward, Murton, Fontenot, Fuld, Fox

WOW the more i look into this if we get roberts and a dependable 4th, 5th starter we will be a VERY stacked team

[TheBenjamin]

Dempster, Hart, Veal, Marquis would be battling for the 4th and 5th spot. If we sign Lieber, which alot of people are suggesting we will, then they will battle for one spot.

[Leprechaun]

no doubt its marquis then dempster... but i really am affraid that some turmoil between lou and marquis will emerge and dempster trying to convert back might hurt us...

hart i have some confidence in

but veal is unproven

and lieber is out of his prime

with the potential lineup we can put on the field im not exactly comfortable with these guys at the back end of the rotation

[TheBenjamin]

well, we still have the Blanton rumors

[Bockstock]

According to MLB.com Cubs shot down rumors that it was Gallagher/Marhsall/Cedeno, but the talks are ongoing.

[TheBenjamin]

hmmmm more and more interesting.... one report I heard said it ws FUld instead of Marshall

[ryno4ever]

If they want Fuld, they can keep Roberts.

[ryno4ever]

According to MLB.com Cubs shot down rumors that it was Gallagher/Marhsall/Cedeno, but the talks are ongoing.

Of course they are going to shoot it down if it hasn't been officially announced, though. Imagine if you were one of those three guys and hear via the net that you were getting traded. Upper Mgmt has always been like that with trade rumors. If a player gets wind of their being traded before they hear it from their bosses, it could potentially leave a bad taste in their mouths.

[TheBenjamin]

If they want Fuld, they can keep Roberts.

Fuld doesnt really overly impress me. He doesnt have a great bat, look at his ML numbers, it wasnt that great there either. Defensively he was above average. And yea, he tore up the AFL but can that translate to the Majors?

[HEYHEY]

This deal sounds dead to me.Way to much to give up for this roidboy

[TheBenjamin]

deal is far from dead. it is almost certain to happen according to several sources. Fuld, Cedeno, and Galagher isnt bad

[AB1077]

Fuld doesnt really overly impress me. He doesnt have a great bat, look at his ML numbers, it wasnt that great there either. Defensively he was above average. And yea, he tore up the AFL but can that translate to the Majors?

I'm not sure why, but he doesn't really impress me either. I know he didn't get too many chances at the plate, but I don't recall him doing anything there. I remember the great play in the outfield flying into the ivy to make a catch and wheeling around to double the guy off 1st, but that 1 play alone isn't enough to make me want to hold him out of a trade for a real leadoff hitter.

[TheBenjamin]

exactly. He struggled in the minors, didnt get much of a shot in the majors in his limited time, but excelled in the AFL. Not like he dominated the minors like some of our ML guys. I would include him, but not 4 people, I would put him in place of Marshall

[Bockstock]

I would trade Fuld over Murton or Patterson

Frankly, I don't see how a 26 year old with extremely little major league experience is a 'back-up' plan to Pie. Plus, with his AFL performance his value may never be higher (hence Hendry probably trumping his value by saying he is 'unouchable).

[TheBenjamin]

exactly Bock. His value is as high as it ever will be. lets capitalize on it for once

[cubbyfanforever]

Brian Roberts Cubs Rumors
UPDATE, 1-9-08 at 6:06pm: WGN Radio's Dave Kaplan checked in on this situation on his blog. He has "great sources" saying the price for Roberts is much higher than was previously reported. The Orioles want Rich Hill, Felix Pie, or Tyler Colvin. Hill is known to be off-limits.

[ryno4ever]

From Dave Kaplan's Blog:

Next up on the trade front is All Star second baseman Brian Roberts and standout starting pitcher Erik Bedard. The Cubs are hot to trot for Roberts who would fit perfectly at the top of their order but contrary to what is being reported in Baltimore, the price is very high. Several sources have reported that O's President Andy MacPhail is looking for pitchers Sean Marshall and Sean Gallagher plus minor league shortstop Ronny Cedeno. Great sources have told me that the price for Roberts is much higher than that. Names that the Orioles are reportedly asking for include Rich Hill and several much more highly regarded players that could include Felix Pie, minor league standout outfielder Tyler Colvin, and others. Sources also tell me that GM Jim Hendry will not part with Hill in any deal and while he is willing to pay a high price, he i s not willing to bankrupt his system of elite prospects.

Will this deal get done? I believe that it will but both sides will have to compromise and in the end the Cubs will pay a very steep price to snare one of the few elite leadoff men in the game. Roberts stole 50 bases in an All Star campaign in 2007 while hitting .290 with 12 home runs and driving in 57. His OBP of .377 would be a huge upgrade for the Cubs lineup but the big question that still remains is: At what price? Have a great day! Kap


I'll tune into Sports Central here in a few minutes and see if Kap touches on it any tonight. For those of you interested, http://www.wgnradio.com

[Drockvb]

that stinks.

I wouldn't want to swap Hill for him. Hill showed promising signs last year. It would be a mistake to include Hill in a trade for him. IMO

[TheBenjamin]

screw giving up Hill. Colvin, sure why not. Pie..... doubtful

[Drew]

This is disappointing to hear. As much as I would love to see Roberts leading off for the Cubs next year, giving up Hill would be way too much.

[TheBenjamin]

No Hill. he will not be included

[HEYHEY]

Pfff yeah "good deal" NOT. Riddle me this,if roidboy is so good why do the O's want to deal him?
Sounds like they are trying to "Hold up" Hendry on this deal.He ain't worth any of those players if he can't play due to a suspension or ban from the game.What don't you guys get.

[TheBenjamin]

He wont be suspended. At least not for his former use. which was before the 2003 that Selig mentioned. And he wants to deal him while his value is high. next year he will have less value being his walk year. I trust hendry. He knows what he is doing

[TheBenjamin]

Bud already went on record saying HE WONT SUSPEND PEOPLE WHO TOOK THEM PRIOR TO THE 2003 SEASON. You think I dont know squat eh? Well I bet I know more then you do. What makes you the expert eh? And just because my usertitle says rookie, doesnt mean that I am one. I am far from a rookie. So keep the insults and lame attempt to discredit me to yourself. k?

[roenick99]

If hes as good as you think he is his value will hold no matter what.Try again

You know, it's thinking like yours that has handcuffed this organization for ONE HUNDRED YEARS! Yes, that's 100 years of waiting for our farm system to produce a team that will NEVER exist. My question to not only you, but to all is did any of you even know who Fuld was before he made that amazing defensive play in that one game last year? I sure didn't. I say later to him, Marshall, Gallagher, Pie, and whoever else if it will help to bring us a World Series victory. I like Hill, he can stay. :D Don't be bashing people because you are obviously one of the only ones that doesn't like "roid boy" as you so eloquently call him. Besides, if you, me or anyone on this board knew "squat" then we wouldn't root for a team that continuously cannot win year after year after year.

[TheBenjamin]

one more thing "vet" people's value does remain the same, but anyone who knows baseball, contracts, and trade knows that timing is worth something. Look at the Twins. They want to trade Santana so they can get something without losing him. His value is sky high, but if they wait til the trade Deadline, teams are going to know they are desperate to trade him. So while they will still get alot for him, they prob. wont get as much at the deadline as they would now. Especially when Teams know it is their last chance to trade him.

[TheBenjamin]

You know, it's thinking like yours that has handcuffed this organization for ONE HUNDRED YEARS! Yes, that's 100 years of waiting for our farm system to produce a team that will NEVER exist. My question to not only you, but to all is did any of you even know who Fuld was before he made that amazing defensive play in that one game last year? I sure didn't. I say later to him, Marshall, Gallagher, Pie, and whoever else if it will help to bring us a World Series victory. I like Hill, he can stay. :D Don't be bashing people because you are obviously one of the only ones that doesn't like "roid boy" as you so eloquently call him. Besides, if you, me or anyone on this board knew "squat" then we wouldn't root for a team that continuously cannot win year after year after year.


lol, well said man. Well said indeed.

[cubbyfanforever]

Hey guys,I came across this at MLB Rumor..................About the supposed Brian Roberts trade. From what I have heard, they have talked over the past week about a trade, but the Orioles continue to ask for a lot of highly regarded prospects. It is being reported by Dave Kaplan through his blog that the Orioles like Tyler Colvin, along with Rich Hill, but the Cubs are not interested. Orioles President Andy McPhail knows the Cubs organization top to bottom and knows what kind of players develop well with the coaches that are assigned down there. I talked to a well placed Cubs executive who said the Cubs have a lot invested in Felix Pie and do not have any intention of dealing him. Dave Kaplan says that Jim Hendry will not deal Rich Hill, which makes Hill and Pie off limits, two players the Orioles are believed to be asking for. Colvin was drafted in 2006 and is already in Double-A and thriving. It seems that the Cubs are not interested in acquiring a top leadoff hitter by depleting their minor league system. However, if they can come to a compromise, maybe they can agree to trade low-level prospect Tony Thomas or Eric Patterson instead of Cedeno, that might get a deal done instead of trading Hill. Although Cubs fans would probably love to see Roberts in a Cubs uniform, I do not think they want to ruin the back end of the rotation to do so. However, he is an All Star with two years left on his contract that makes the Cubs the favorites in the Central in 2008.

When I was in Nashville for the Winter Meetings, I learned that the Cubs had interest in Chone Figgins, but only if he would play center field. If the Cubs land Roberts, I think the Cubs interest in Figgins would jump, and could lead to a quick trade possibly involving Felix Pie, but probably just Donnie Veal. I'm not sure what the Cubs would have to give up or how many players, so this deal, if any, seems far away. A lot more will be determined if they acquire Roberts, and what they plan to do with Mark DeRosa.

Stay tuned.

[weeghman]

So now your the commish huh rook? You don't know squat. If hes as good as you think he is his value will hold no matter what.Try again

Dude, relax with the "rook" BS. You have done it a couple times over the past 2 weeks and it is lame. Someone's knowledge is not lessened by their sign up date or the number of posts they have on the board. If you debate with logic and reason instead of throwing out your random, "Oh OK Rookie", you may receive a little better response to your stated opinions.

By the way I like the "Roid Monkey" and hope we complete the deal soon. He makes the lineup extremely well rounded top to bottom. And if what cubbyfanforever is reporting is true, can you even imagine how solid our lineup will be. Speed, power, and role players...

[ryno4ever]

Hey guys,I came across this at MLB Rumor..................About the supposed Brian Roberts trade. From what I have heard, they have talked over the past week about a trade, but the Orioles continue to ask for a lot of highly regarded prospects. It is being reported by Dave Kaplan through his blog that the Orioles like Tyler Colvin, along with Rich Hill, but the Cubs are not interested. Orioles President Andy McPhail knows the Cubs organization top to bottom and knows what kind of players develop well with the coaches that are assigned down there. I talked to a well placed Cubs executive who said the Cubs have a lot invested in Felix Pie and do not have any intention of dealing him. Dave Kaplan says that Jim Hendry will not deal Rich Hill, which makes Hill and Pie off limits, two players the Orioles are believed to be asking for. Colvin was drafted in 2006 and is already in Double-A and thriving. It seems that the Cubs are not interested in acquiring a top leadoff hitter by depleting their minor league system. However, if they can come to a compromise, maybe they can agree to trade low-level prospect Tony Thomas or Eric Patterson instead of Cedeno, that might get a deal done instead of trading Hill. Although Cubs fans would probably love to see Roberts in a Cubs uniform, I do not think they want to ruin the back end of the rotation to do so. However, he is an All Star with two years left on his contract that makes the Cubs the favorites in the Central in 2008.

When I was in Nashville for the Winter Meetings, I learned that the Cubs had interest in Chone Figgins, but only if he would play center field. If the Cubs land Roberts, I think the Cubs interest in Figgins would jump, and could lead to a quick trade possibly involving Felix Pie, but probably just Donnie Veal. I'm not sure what the Cubs would have to give up or how many players, so this deal, if any, seems far away. A lot more will be determined if they acquire Roberts, and what they plan to do with Mark DeRosa.

Stay tuned.

Thanks, Frank! (good to hear from ya again! :)).... Just curious, did you go to the Winter Meetings just for the Meetings, or did you just happen to be in the area? That would be really something to be a part of!

[TheBenjamin]

everything I hear about the Angels and Cubs discussing a Chone Figgins deal (BTW how cool is that spelling of his first name) is that they would want A-Ram back in any deal for him. So while the prospects of a Roberts/Figgins 1-2 punch would kick ass, I wouldnt get my hopes up too high.

[Robertsfan]

Pfff yeah "good deal" NOT. Riddle me this,if roidboy is so good why do the O's want to deal him?
Sounds like they are trying to "Hold up" Hendry on this deal.He ain't worth any of those players if he can't play due to a suspension or ban from the game.What don't you guys get.

There's a whole lot you don't get, obviously. First of all, regarding suspension, etc., MLB announced the week after the Mitchell Report came out that they were looking into the possibility of discipline against 14 players who were accused of doing something after 2004. That clearly doesn't include Roberts, who was accused, and admitted to, a brief experimentation in 2003.

Now as for the O's "wanting" to deal him, you have a thing or two to learn about how baseball works as well. When a team has been losing for 10 years, it needs to rebuild. That means you listen to offers for all your players of value. They are in trade discussions about Roberts and Erik Bedard as well as all of their lesser veterans. However, Roberts was the one they were least interested in trading because of his popularity in the Baltimore community. Hendry approached Andy MacPhail at the winter meetings and initiated the discussions. MacPhail is certainly listening because he is trying to rebuild the whole team and Roberts has allegedly privately told the club he would prefer not to stick around if all the other veterans are traded, but he is certainly not in a position of desperation. The Cubs are the aggressors here. If you target a specific player who fits your plans, you have to pay a reasonable value or you won't get him.

[HEYHEY]

Bud already went on record saying HE WONT SUSPEND PEOPLE WHO TOOK THEM PRIOR TO THE 2003 SEASON. You think I dont know squat eh? Well I bet I know more then you do. What makes you the expert eh? And just because my usertitle says rookie, doesnt mean that I am one. I am far from a rookie. So keep the insults and lame attempt to discredit me to yourself. k?

That is all under investigation by Congress.Bud has no control because he never did.As for the latter I think not K

[HEYHEY]

You know, it's thinking like yours that has handcuffed this organization for ONE HUNDRED YEARS! Yes, that's 100 years of waiting for our farm system to produce a team that will NEVER exist. My question to not only you, but to all is did any of you even know who Fuld was before he made that amazing defensive play in that one game last year? I sure didn't. I say later to him, Marshall, Gallagher, Pie, and whoever else if it will help to bring us a World Series victory. I like Hill, he can stay. :D Don't be bashing people because you are obviously one of the only ones that doesn't like "roid boy" as you so eloquently call him. Besides, if you, me or anyone on this board knew "squat" then we wouldn't root for a team that continuously cannot win year after year after year.

Time for you and me to go round and round again eh. I never cared for Fuld and still don't. The Cub have tried every way to get a winner two three times over in the last 100 years. So you want to gut the team for ONE player who self admittidly said he used steroids?
Yeah were going to trade away all of our top prospects for a guy who said he only used once?
Your just naive.Who do you think this dude is A-rod?
Just like the liar Clinton saying he tried pot but "didn't inhale"

Then the obvious question is that all of you pro roidboy's don't address.What about Dero? You just going to throw him under the bus?
What about Soriano wanting to be the leadoff guy?
I don't think he should be leadoff either but now your messing wuth the teams chemistry and egos.
Roberts sucked last year and was hurt the past couple.REDFLAG, sound familiar Wood,Prior? I hope Hendry learned his lesson with Roid users,you people obviously havn't.
Heres a question for you.....Do you honestly think if we sign roidboy that we will win the World Series?????????

[HEYHEY]

Dude, relax with the "rook" BS. You have done it a couple times over the past 2 weeks and it is lame. Someone's knowledge is not lessened by their sign up date or the number of posts they have on the board. If you debate with logic and reason instead of throwing out your random, "Oh OK Rookie", you may receive a little better response to your stated opinions.

By the way I like the "Roid Monkey" and hope we complete the deal soon. He makes the lineup extremely well rounded top to bottom. And if what cubbyfanforever is reporting is true, can you even imagine how solid our lineup will be. Speed, power, and role players...

Relax yourself.Don't blame me for the label fogpog puts on us.I'm just stating the obvious.If you can't handle the title then complain to the mods about it not me. Yeah that lineup looks real solid with a guy you give up for all of your top prospects for and he gets hurt again because hes juiced or he gets drummed out of baseball by the heat that is building and sure to come in some form or fashion.Why open the can with roidboy.

Do you think this guy is Arod or something that you would give up so much?

[TheBenjamin]

so you think user title reflects who we are? So because I dont post here often, unless there is baseball to discuss, my limited post count means that I lack knowledge? Whatever you say "vet". I dont pay attention to user titles, just what people say, and what their personality tells me. So far, from what I gather, you say SOME things that make sense, but your personality tells me that you are.... well, lets keep this this board clean. K?

[TheBenjamin]

Relax yourself.Don't blame me for the label fogpog puts on us.I'm just stating the obvious.If you can't handle the title then complain to the mods about it not me. Yeah that lineup looks real solid with a guy you give up for all of your top prospects for and he gets hurt again because hes juiced or he gets drummed out of baseball by the heat that is building and sure to come in some form or fashion.Why open the can with roidboy.

Do you think this guy is Arod or something that you would give up so much?

According to some source, A-Rod is a Juicer. Canseco says he has the goods on A-Rod, and that it will be in his next book. So are you saying you wouldnt want A-Rod?

[HEYHEY]

According to some source, A-Rod is a Juicer. Canseco says he has the goods on A-Rod, and that it will be in his next book. So are you saying you wouldnt want A-Rod?

So let me get this straight..... you think Roberts is as good as Arod?

[TheBenjamin]

reading is a skill. yo keep saying that. where am I reading something wrong. I read what you say, and I react. You call me rook cause thats my user title. And you obviously seem to think that because of that user title, I lack the knowledge of a real fan. So tell me, prof. hey, where am I reading what wrong

[HEYHEY]

reading is a skill. yo keep saying that. where am I reading something wrong. I read what you say, and I react. You call me rook cause thats my user title. And you obviously seem to think that because of that user title, I lack the knowledge of a real fan. So tell me, prof. hey, where am I reading what wrong

Well for one you keep avoiding the questions.... WHY?

[weeghman]

Just to add something extremely insignificant CBSsportsline .com projects Roberts to have an OBP of .373, 38 SB, and 100+ runs this year. I am assuming those are projections with the Orioles. I personally think the SB and the runs will be more with the Cubs, if they acquire him.

[SkullKey]

The way he ran into the wall you might be right"

" .....he is 'unouchable" ..... "

[Robertsfan]

HEY HEY, why don't you just go start your own baseball team with only guys who have never touched steroids in their lives. They can play in your local over-30 men's league because that's about the only place you're going to find a full team like that. Yes it's unfortunate that baseball has had a steroids problem, but pinning it all on a few guys who have been men and admitted their involvement (especially when it was very limited) is the most counterproductive thing you can do. How is baseball going to ever be honest about the past and move on to do something about the future with lunatics like you running around screaming at everybody who tells the truth?

[HEYHEY]

HEY HEY, why don't you just go start your own baseball team with only guys who have never touched steroids in their lives. They can play in your local over-30 men's league because that's about the only place you're going to find a full team like that. Yes it's unfortunate that baseball has had a steroids problem, but pinning it all on a few guys who have been men and admitted their involvement (especially when it was very limited) is the most counterproductive thing you can do. How is baseball going to ever be honest about the past and move on to do something about the future with lunatics like you running around screaming at everybody who tells the truth?


I knew it! now your guilty as charged.Your a steroid user apologist.Also a supporter of cheaters.
I don't beleive you condone the use of roids. You just admitted that Roberts is a user.
you have no regard for the kids out there that refuse to juice that are as good or better than the kids that are juicing to get an edge,how many kids lives are ruined because of people like you and your roidboy?.I.E CHEATING.You disgust me to no end.
Truth? you don't know what truth is.Why don't you tell your boy Roberts to testify under oath that hes not using? He'd prolly lie anyway

[Bockstock]

how many kids lives are ruined because of people like you and your roidboy?.I.E CHEATING.You disgust me to no end.
Truth? you don't know what truth is.Why don't you tell your boy Roberts to testify under oath that hes not using? He'd prolly lie anyway.

LOL

Can I make this my new sig???

[Ivy Killa]

Where are the Mods at? This thread is about Brian Roberts, it wasnt started so ppl can bicker.....really whats the fu!king point, bickering isnt what fogpog is about and it's not why all of us flock to it on a daily basis and HEYHEY you should know better. Benjamin dont let his behavior affect what you think of fogpog cause most of the time this is the best site to talk Cubs baseball.

[TheBenjamin]

i know its a good site, thats why I come here. I jut havent been on much, cause I am usually on my Bears board (best Bears board on the net), but since its basically baseball season, I will be here more often. I wont let H2 scare me off.

[DLee25]

Ban this user or temp ban or warn him or something. It's ridiculous. This is NOT what fogpog is about, you have been flaming this whole entire thread. I am reading, and it pisses me off to let someone not let anyone else state their opinions. You don't need to comment on every single thing you think is wrong.



Maybe they should just delete all post counts, because you saying someone with a smaller post count has no knowledge, basically. Well I guess you are right? I bet the people that registered today don't even know who the cubs are? Maybe you should PM them and tell them, and all of your information you know, since it sounds like you know everything about baseball.
I don't care if your a vet, a person like you should head to THIS WEBSITE: http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=ml-cubs

It will fit your posts, with that site, very well.

Thank you.

[weeghman]

Where are the Mods at? This thread is about Brian Roberts, it wasnt started so ppl can bicker.....really whats the fu!king point, bickering isnt what fogpog is about and it's not why all of us flock to it on a daily basis and HEYHEY you should know better. Benjamin dont let his behavior affect what you think of fogpog cause most of the time this is the best site to talk Cubs baseball.

I think all mods may have taken a day off. I don't know. This is the longest I can remember not seeing Ryno4 on. I am not sure why Hey Hey is posting like this. I can remember him being perfectly rational in the past. Like I said though, It may just be the pure speculation and boredom from anticipation for the season.

[DLee25]

I think all mods may have taken a day off. I don't know. This is the longest I can remember not seeing Ryno4 on. I am not sure why Hey Hey is posting like this. I can remember him being perfectly rational in the past. Like I said though, It may just be the pure speculation and boredom from anticipation for the season.

Well let's get back on track.

[TheBenjamin]

either way, im not a fan of it. Sure, discussions take place, disagreements take place... but the level he is taking it is unacceptable.

[DLee25]

Yep. Anyways, any further new on Roberts? I'll be honest, haven't followed much lately.

[TheBenjamin]

well, my friend who gave me the info from teh Balt. Insider said that Angelous squashed it, but I hear they are still working on the trade. I would still bet that it gets done

[DLee25]

Interesting. Hope it falls through honestly.

[BigZ38]

Some of the things I see on these past couple of threads disgust me....if you want to bash others go to a different board.

[Robertsfan]

well, my friend who gave me the info from teh Balt. Insider said that Angelous squashed it, but I hear they are still working on the trade. I would still bet that it gets done

FYI if you're talking about the Orioles Hangout insider, the guy who posted that is actually a Cubs person who says he has a contact in the Cubs FO. He's only been on Orioles' Hangout for about a week so unless you know more about the guy than I do I'd say the jury's still out on him. He could be saying this to cover for himself because he erroneously reported that the paperwork was with the league office Tuesday night.

Anyway, I can't believe Angelos would have squashed the deal this time unless he and MacPhail had specific parameters worked out beforehand and MacPhail tried to go outside them. I think it's more likely that they may be holding off on finalizing anything with the Cubs until they have figured out where Bedard's going and what pieces they're getting back from there. I still think Bedard and Roberts will both be traded pretty soon though. If not, their agent (they have the same one) will probably have a heart attack. Poor guy!

[ryno4ever]

I think all mods may have taken a day off. I don't know. This is the longest I can remember not seeing Ryno4 on. I am not sure why Hey Hey is posting like this. I can remember him being perfectly rational in the past. Like I said though, It may just be the pure speculation and boredom from anticipation for the season.

I was at work... sorry guys.... we'll try to get this all worked out... and to the newer members, please don't think this is a typical fogpog thread, as it is just the opposite. We welcome new members, thoughts, opinions, and even other teams fans! :D

[Robertsfan]

I was at work... sorry guys.... we'll try to get this all worked out... and to the newer members, please don't think this is a typical fogpog thread, as it is just the opposite. We welcome new members, thoughts, opinions, and even other teams fans! :D

No worries. I can tell most of the people on here are nice. If I leave it'll most likely be because the Indians (or someone) swept in and stole B-Rob out from under your grasp. :D

[ryno4ever]

No worries. I can tell most of the people on here are nice. If I leave it'll most likely be because the Indians (or someone) swept in and stole B-Rob out from under your grasp. :D

Just wondering, how does the Baltimore Fans view Andy McPhail....
or McF-A-I-L as many in Cubdome referred to him as.......

[Robertsfan]

Just wondering, how does the Baltimore Fans view Andy McPhail....
or McF-A-I-L as many in Cubdome referred to him as.......

Ugh. Sadly, quite a lot of them seem to view him as the second coming for no good reason. Well, I guess the good reason is because his father was a good GM for the O's way back in the day and he grew up in B-more and all, but so far as a GM I am not too impressed. I mean, he hasn't actually done a whole lot yet so I'm trying to withhold judgment, but frankly I'm tired of hearing that he's the savior who knows better than everybody and is going to rescue the Orioles from 10 years of complete ineptitude and everything that goes wrong is Peter Angelos meddling or somehow somebody else's fault. We have had some super bad GMs in the last decade though (Senile Syd Thrift and the combinations of Jim Beattie/Mike Flanagan and Mike Flanagan/Jim Duquette) so he may turn out to be an improvement. I have a really bad feeling his being "methodical" is going to screw up a good chance to get ridiculous value for Erik Bedard though.

[taz57]

Robertsfan,

Andy MacFailure has never, and never will live up to the accomplishments that his father has done for our great game. When Andy first arrived in Chicago, I thought from his success in the Twins organization that great things were ahead for the Cubs. He hired Ed Lynch and Jim Riggleman to turn things around. After about five seasons of more-of-the-same, they were both let go and MacPhail took over the GM duties. He really showed his lack of evaluating talent in this role. Eventually he turned the GM duties over to Jim Hendry. Hendry made a few clever trades in 2003 to bring Ramirez, Lofton, and Simon from the Pirates to push the Cubs to the post-season. Hendry has made some moves that makes you scratch your head over, but as a whole, I think he has done a pretty decent job. It's funny that the moment that MacPhail left the Cubs, the coffers opened up to the tune of 300 mil. I never thought that I would see the Cubs spend with the likes of the Yankees and Red Sox.

[TheBenjamin]

FYI if you're talking about the Orioles Hangout insider, the guy who posted that is actually a Cubs person who says he has a contact in the Cubs FO. He's only been on Orioles' Hangout for about a week so unless you know more about the guy than I do I'd say the jury's still out on him. He could be saying this to cover for himself because he erroneously reported that the paperwork was with the league office Tuesday night.

Anyway, I can't believe Angelos would have squashed the deal this time unless he and MacPhail had specific parameters worked out beforehand and MacPhail tried to go outside them. I think it's more likely that they may be holding off on finalizing anything with the Cubs until they have figured out where Bedard's going and what pieces they're getting back from there. I still think Bedard and Roberts will both be traded pretty soon though. If not, their agent (they have the same one) will probably have a heart attack. Poor guy!

if you read the first post, you will what my friend said. Probably a bit of a run around. Like I said though, take it as you will. He was on my Bears board saying he has a friend from the Oriles insider.

[ryno4ever]

Robertsfan,

Andy MacFailure has never, and never will live up to the accomplishments that his father has done for our great game. When Andy first arrived in Chicago, I thought from his success in the Twins organization that great things were ahead for the Cubs. He hired Ed Lynch and Jim Riggleman to turn things around. After about five seasons of more-of-the-same, they were both let go and MacPhail took over the GM duties. He really showed his lack of evaluating talent in this role. Eventually he turned the GM duties over to Jim Hendry. Hendry made a few clever trades in 2003 to bring Ramirez, Lofton, and Simon from the Pirates to push the Cubs to the post-season. Hendry has made some moves that makes you scratch your head over, but as a whole, I think he has done a pretty decent job. It's funny that the moment that MacPhail left the Cubs, the coffers opened up to the tune of 300 mil. I never thought that I would see the Cubs spend with the likes of the Yankees and Red Sox.


Flashback..... October 1st, 2006..... about 3:30pm in the afternoon. I had so many mixed feelings....it was the last day of a very very disappointing season.... one that had started with such high hopes.... another heartbreak, and yet this year was a bit different, I felt a small sense of relief that it was finally over.... about 15 minutes later, the Cubs announced that McFail was going to be holding a press conference but no one knew why. As soon as McFail said "stepping down".... and explained to us that he was leaving.... my phone began to ring with my fellow happy cub fan friends who saw this not only as a brand new beginning, but a breath of fresh air. It got even more exciting when John McDonough was announced as his successor!

Robertsfan, most, if not all, Cub fans despised the little Selig-wanna-be before he left town. He is NOTHING like his father.

[Leprechaun]

I think it's more likely that they may be holding off on finalizing anything with the Cubs until they have figured out where Bedard's going and what pieces they're getting back from there. I still think Bedard and Roberts will both be traded pretty soon though. If not, their agent (they have the same one) will probably have a heart attack. Poor guy!


as far as i know this is correct... i remember reading a few places that these talks about have been going on for a long time and what is holding them up is the bedard trade talks... as if they want to unload bedard before roberts ti see what kind of talent they still need to go after

[Robertsfan]

as far as i know this is correct... i remember reading a few places that these talks about have been going on for a long time and what is holding them up is the bedard trade talks... as if they want to unload bedard before roberts ti see what kind of talent they still need to go after

I think it's both that and the fact that Roberts is a real fan favorite and face of the Orioles' charitable efforts whereas Bedard is just a very good pitcher who blows off the media. For the average O's fan, the emotional blow of having to let go of Roberts is going to be much bigger, even if trading Bedard temporarily hurts the team at least as much on the field. Angelos seems to think the fans will take it better if Roberts is the last of the veteran stars to be traded.

[Robertsfan]

if you read the first post, you will what my friend said. Probably a bit of a run around. Like I said though, take it as you will. He was on my Bears board saying he has a friend from the Oriles insider.

Which first post? The one I responded to or an earlier one? It sounded to me like your friend might have been referring to one of the "Orioles insiders" from OH. Sorry if I misinterpreted.

Edit: Sorry, just noticed you were the one who started the thread. So is your friend "JoeyR5"???

[TheBenjamin]

no, my friend goes by a different name on my Chicago Bears board. And yea, I was refering to the post that started this thread :D

[missing23]

I would dump Pie in a heartbeat for Roberts...one is proven leadoff/steals man and the other is still waving at curves and turning easy flys into acrobatic catches...plus we don't know much about him on the bases because he rarely gets on.

[ryno4ever]

I would dump Pie in a heartbeat for Roberts...one is proven leadoff/steals man and the other is still waving at curves and turning easy flys into acrobatic catches...plus we don't know much about him on the bases because he rarely gets on.

Hendry was on the radio not too long ago and said that the reason they view Pie "untouchable" is because they have way too much invested in him. I think they really brought him up too early, and I realize they didn't have much of a choice, but he had a big reputation to uphold, and when he didn't perform to what he was hyped up to be because he wasn't quite ready, offensively, they have added even more pressure on the kid, which isn't going to help him in his progress at all.

[missing23]

Hendry was on the radio not too long ago and said that the reason they view Pie "untouchable" is because they have way too much invested in him. I think they really brought him up too early, and I realize they didn't have much of a choice, but he had a big reputation to uphold, and when he didn't perform to what he was hyped up to be because he wasn't quite ready, offensively, they have added even more pressure on the kid, which isn't going to help him in his progress at all.

Ever heard of cutting your losses? Look what the Cubs got for the last Willie Mays (Patterson)...nothing...get something for the loser Pie before he implodes...and he most certainly will.

[weeghman]

Ever heard of cutting your losses? Look what the Cubs got for the last Willie Mays (Patterson)...nothing...get something for the loser Pie before he implodes...and he most certainly will.

I was a big proponent of adding him to the trade to try and lure Bedard away from them too. I don't know about adding him just for Robert's though. IMO his trade value should still be slightly higher than that.

[missing23]

I was a big proponent of adding him to the trade to try and lure Bedard away from them too. I don't know about adding him just for Robert's though. IMO his trade value should still be slightly higher than that.

You know what? If not Roberts we're going to see 400+ AB's at a low .200's clip thrown away this year because Pie is going to have to play...it is going to kill me to watch him flail at the plate and make easy plays look hard all year. It will cost us in a year when there is a pretty good chance to make a deep playoff run.

[TheBenjamin]

even if we get Roberts in a deal without Pie involved, Pie will still be in the lineup

[missing23]

even if we get Roberts in a deal without Pie involved, Pie will still be in the lineup

Unfortunately...at least until he hits sub .200 into June...getting rid of Jones was a big mistake because after Pie flames out we will have to endure another Patterson attempt...hopefully Fuld can replicate his AZ performance because it will come to this.

[HOLYCOW!25]

Unfortunately...at least until he hits sub .200 into June...getting rid of Jones was a big mistake because after Pie flames out we will have to endure another Patterson attempt...hopefully Fuld can replicate his AZ performance because it will come to this.

I just want to know why you dislike Pie so much? I mean, he hasn't even had the experience of a full major league season. Sure he didn't do well, but he had great stats in the minor leagues. I mean, you can't expect everyone to be an all star after 177 at bats.

[TheBenjamin]

personally, when we have nothing going for us, I want to see our young prospects. Watch them play with no pressure, see if they can improve, and prove they belong. But here, and now, when we have nothing but high expectations, I agree. I dont want to see a young up and commer earn his strips when we look to be a main contender. I would rather have and see a vet out there who we know what we are going to get.

[Robertsfan]

There are now two threads on the Orioles Hangout saying that Bruce Levine reported on ESPN 1000 that the talks are now off. Did any of you guys hear that?

[dundeecub]

i don't think that playing pie is the wrong thing to do, as holycow points out he has had very few ml abs and his minors numbers are really something - if he'd played enough he would have been 2nd in obp and 1st in slg and avg (41, 563 and 362). if he does only a little better this year (ave: 250, obp: 320, slg: 400?) the trio of soto, pie and fukudome will better the trio of barrett, jones and floyd.

[ryno4ever]

There are now two threads on the Orioles Hangout saying that Bruce Levine reported on ESPN 1000 that the talks are now off. Did any of you guys hear that?

I haven't heard it myself, but it doesn't surprise me, they guys on the Score the other day were saying that as it got closer and closer, McFail was asking for more and more, and Hendry's style isn't to just give away the talent, but Hendry is more the GM looking for a bargain (remember Rammy! :))

[Robertsfan]

I haven't heard it myself, but it doesn't surprise me, they guys on the Score the other day were saying that as it got closer and closer, McFail was asking for more and more, and Hendry's style isn't to just give away the talent, but Hendry is more the GM looking for a bargain (remember Rammy! :))

Makes sense. If he weren't looking to score on the cheap he probably wouldn't have pursued Kaz Matsui before trying to pull off a trade for Roberts. I guess he thought his friendship with MacPhail would get him a deal. At this point it sounds like the Indians might be in the lead if Roberts is going to get traded (big if), but who knows? It would be nice for him to have a chance to go to the playoffs. :(

[TheBenjamin]

i think he was also depending on McFAIL's lack of any real baseball sense to be able to swindle him into a deal

[Robertsfan]

i think he was also depending on McFAIL's lack of any real baseball sense to be able to swindle him into a deal

That too. If not for Peter Angelos and his man crush he might've been able to pull it off. :D

[TheBenjamin]

lol. McFail is a bust. far from what his father was

[HOLYCOW!25]

I think the two possible deals that McPhail could pull off now show how bad of a GM he is. He could easily get 6-8 good prospects by trading Roberts and Bedard, but he keeps asking for more, and teams obviously don't want to give more. And it's not like he gains anything by keeping them, but he has LOTS to gain by trading them, especially since they won't have any chance at competing in the AL East for another 5 years or so. If he could just pull off these trades, he could get some young players and build them up and get them ready by then.

[ryno4ever]

I think the two possible deals that McPhail could pull off now show how bad of a GM he is. He could easily get 6-8 good prospects by trading Roberts and Bedard, but he keeps asking for more, and teams obviously don't want to give more. And it's not like he gains anything by keeping them, but he has LOTS to gain by trading them, especially since they won't have any chance at competing in the AL East for another 5 years or so. If he could just pull off these trades, he could get some young players and build them up and get them ready by then.

Pretty much exactly what Steve Stone said on his show the other day!

[TheBenjamin]

id rather have Bedard then Roberts. but i will take either

[cubbyfanforever]

Its time to move on,lets sign Lofton!!!!!!!!!!!

[cubbyfanforever]

All that time,seems to me that Mc F-a-i-l was getting us Cub fans back for calling him a McFail bust.

[missing23]

I just want to know why you dislike Pie so much? I mean, he hasn't even had the experience of a full major league season. Sure he didn't do well, but he had great stats in the minor leagues. I mean, you can't expect everyone to be an all star after 177 at bats.

Because I personally have seen enough of Pie to know he doesn't have 'it'. I don't get any feeling by watching him that is just a tick away...he is a TON away. He can't and won't ever hit majors pitching consistently. This season will be telling of course and I'm pretty sure he will hit right around .200 with little power and will be riding pine.

Get rid of him while he still has value before we are stuck with another Patterson flop.

Bookmark this post and rag on me big time if Pie hits...if not give me the props due!:D

[missing23]

Its time to move on,lets sign Lofton!!!!!!!!!!!

+1,000,000

[taz57]

i think he was also depending on McFAIL's lack of any real baseball sense to be able to swindle him into a deal

Good point Benjamin. MacPhail should stay in the front office and leave the player/personnal decisions to the people that know what they're doing. It wouldn't surprise me if Andy the Clown still has Bedard and Roberts in his hip pocket come opening day.

[ryno4ever]

Just a little update. I was listening to Dave Kaplan on WGN's Sports Central last night. They had on the "WGN Baseball Expert" Baseball Prospectus' Will Carroll. Both stated that the Roberts deal is NOT dead, just not as close as it had been. The Orioles now want Marshall, Gallagher, Colvin, and Cedeno. Hendry is a little leary about the four players instead of three. When Hendry offered three players, the O' laughed. When McFailure asked for Hill, the Cubs laughed. Here's the interesting thing.... Kap asked Carroll if he would do the four for one trade and Carroll said "absolutely". Kap disagreed. Carroll's reasoning was that in one player (Roberts) Hendry gets everything he is looking for in one player and it is going to cost him players that do not "fit" on the team right now, and won't for the next couple of years. Kap brought up the part of Marshall being in the deal, because if Demp and Marquis don't pan out, there is no one there to fill in.... and Carroll said that the most replacable position on a baseball team is the 5th starter and he could easily be replaced and there are still plenty of FA pitchers out there if none of the AAA players are ready (keep in mind we still have Hart). Hendry doesn't really want to give up that much for Roberts, so the next few days should be interesting.

[weeghman]

Just a little update. I was listening to Dave Kaplan on WGN's Sports Central last night. They had on the "WGN Baseball Expert" Baseball Prospectus' Will Carroll. Both stated that the Roberts deal is NOT dead, just not as close as it had been. The Orioles now want Marshall, Gallagher, Colvin, and Cedeno. Hendry is a little leary about the four players instead of three. When Hendry offered three players, the O' laughed. When McFailure asked for Hill, the Cubs laughed. Here's the interesting thing.... Kap asked Carroll if he would do the four for one trade and Carroll said "absolutely". Kap disagreed. Carroll's reasoning was that in one player (Roberts) Hendry gets everything he is looking for in one player and it is going to cost him players that do not "fit" on the team right now, and won't for the next couple of years. Kap brought up the part of Marshall being in the deal, because if Demp and Marquis don't pan out, there is no one there to fill in.... and Carroll said that the most replacable position on a baseball team is the 5th starter and he could easily be replaced and there are still plenty of FA pitchers out there if none of the AAA players are ready (keep in mind we still have Hart). Hendry doesn't really want to give up that much for Roberts, so the next few days should be interesting.

The offseason madness is starting to really set in for me. This is getting really old. McFail and the O's are making this thing very hard, very Tampa Bay like. I say add in Colvin, Pie, and a mid level prospect (Veal maybe) and get Bedard too. Then sign Lofton another servicable CF. That would stabalize our entire lineup and, to me, make us the outright favorite in the NL.

Then again it is early morning, I am in a bad mood, and am probably not thinking things thru. I know it isn't that easy but I will continue to dream.

[Bockstock]

The offseason madness is starting to really set in for me. This is getting really old. McFail and the O's are making this thing very hard, very Tampa Bay like. I say add in Colvin, Pie, and a mid level prospect (Veal maybe) and get Bedard too. Then sign Lofton another servicable CF. That would stabalize our entire lineup and, to me, make us the outright favorite in the NL.

Then again it is early morning, I am in a bad mood, and am probably not thinking things thru. I know it isn't that easy but I will continue to dream.


Roberts, Bedard, Jay Payton (CF)???

[Bockstock]

and Carroll said that the most replacable position on a baseball team is the 5th starter.

Does anyone else disagree with this?? The 5th starter is going to start only a handful less games than your #1 ace.

[TheBenjamin]

Just a little update. I was listening to Dave Kaplan on WGN's Sports Central last night. They had on the "WGN Baseball Expert" Baseball Prospectus' Will Carroll. Both stated that the Roberts deal is NOT dead, just not as close as it had been. The Orioles now want Marshall, Gallagher, Colvin, and Cedeno. Hendry is a little leary about the four players instead of three. When Hendry offered three players, the O' laughed. When McFailure asked for Hill, the Cubs laughed. Here's the interesting thing.... Kap asked Carroll if he would do the four for one trade and Carroll said "absolutely". Kap disagreed. Carroll's reasoning was that in one player (Roberts) Hendry gets everything he is looking for in one player and it is going to cost him players that do not "fit" on the team right now, and won't for the next couple of years. Kap brought up the part of Marshall being in the deal, because if Demp and Marquis don't pan out, there is no one there to fill in.... and Carroll said that the most replacable position on a baseball team is the 5th starter and he could easily be replaced and there are still plenty of FA pitchers out there if none of the AAA players are ready (keep in mind we still have Hart). Hendry doesn't really want to give up that much for Roberts, so the next few days should be interesting.

4 for 1 is a tricky situation, while it is not always the best thing to do, depending on the prospects/players we are giving, and what we are getting, I would do it.

The offseason madness is starting to really set in for me. This is getting really old. McFail and the O's are making this thing very hard, very Tampa Bay like. I say add in Colvin, Pie, and a mid level prospect (Veal maybe) and get Bedard too. Then sign Lofton another servicable CF. That would stabalize our entire lineup and, to me, make us the outright favorite in the NL.

Then again it is early morning, I am in a bad mood, and am probably not thinking things thru. I know it isn't that easy but I will continue to dream.

If you want Bedard, its going to cost more the COlvin Pie and Veal. Even added in with the other players we would possibly be sending for Roberts. Bedard is going to be very pricey

Roberts, Bedard, Jay Payton (CF)???

The Payton idea, might be our key to getting a slight discount. The O's seem desperate to get rid of him. We could use him off the bench as well. Maybe Hendry cooks something up along the lines of "we will take this guy off your hands, since you dont want him, but it means we will keep player X instead of sending him in any deal."

Does anyone else disagree with this?? The 5th starter is going to start only a handful less games than your #1 ace.


The 5th starter is complicated. He could start a lot less games then your ace, or 1 less. If he pitches on schedule, meaning every 5th/6th and no one gets skipped, he will start one less time then the Ace. If you only use him when you have 5+ games ina row without an off day, and this is just a rough estimate here, he might start 5-10 games less.

[Leprechaun]

Does anyone else disagree with this?? The 5th starter is going to start only a handful less games than your #1 ace.

i agree it is one of the most replacable positions for this reason... all thougth they pitch a handful of games less than your "ace" or number one starter they are demanded much less. for example if your ace goes 15-14 on the season it is a problem but your 5th starter goes 15-14 than that is an accomplishment.

i just think that a 5th starter is someone who can put up avearage numbers and you should happy. they wont be a starter in the playoffs and if all star break comes to adn your 1, 2, and 3 starters pitch right before i can gurantee they won't start the second half of the season with number 4 and 5, they will go right back to the ace

[Bockstock]

for example if your ace goes 15-14 on the season it is a problem but your 5th starter goes 15-14 than that is an accomplishment.

Wins are a bad way to evaluate pitchers. Last year's #5's pitched 29 games between them. and compiled a 5.14 ERA and 1.6 WHIP. If the Cubs had a solid 1-4 it wouldn't be a problem, but there are lingering doubts about whether Z will continue to regress like he has to varying degrees the past 3 years (he only had 3 months last year where he had under a 4.00 ERA), how effective Marquis will be, and how much Ted Lilly will fall back after his career year.

Throw into the bag that the Cubs only won their division by a couple of games, the Cubs starters had no injuries last year, and I think going into the season looking at your #5 with that kind of viewpoint is a bad idea.

[Leprechaun]

Wins are a bad way to evaluate pitchers. Last year's #5's pitched 29 games between them. and compiled a 5.14 ERA and 1.6 WHIP. If the Cubs had a solid 1-4 it wouldn't be a problem, but there are lingering doubts about whether Z will continue to regress like he has to varying degrees the past 3 years (he only had 3 months last year where he had under a 4.00 ERA), how effective Marquis will be, and how much Ted Lilly will fall back after his career year.

Throw into the bag that the Cubs only won their division by a couple of games, the Cubs starters had no injuries last year, and I think going into the season looking at your #5 with that kind of viewpoint is a bad idea.

true and we shouldnt jsut expect z to wake up... look where that got us with prior and wood we shouldnt plan on his success, although normally lieber woudl be a decent number 5 i think you are right we need more improovement if our "ace" continues to fall off the map

[weeghman]

true and we shouldnt jsut expect z to wake up... look where that got us with prior and wood we shouldnt plan on his success, although normally lieber woudl be a decent number 5 i think you are right we need more improovement if our "ace" continues to fall off the map

I am hoping that last year Z was being affected by the contract negotiations and resulting distraction. Hopefully this year he will concentrate and just go out and dominate the way we know he can. It is still kind of mind boggling how one pitcher can look so completely different from on start to the next.

[missing23]

I am hoping that last year Z was being affected by the contract negotiations and resulting distraction. Hopefully this year he will concentrate and just go out and dominate the way we know he can. It is still kind of mind boggling how one pitcher can look so completely different from on start to the next.

Z is incredibly inconsistent...Cy-like one game and White Sox pitcher-like the next.

He needs to quit all that emotional and gesturing crap he does and focus on pitching.

[TheBenjamin]

i just hope he has a good year

[Bockstock]

Getting back to that awesome grounder to flyball ratio that would help.

[NeifiPerezMVP2007]

Z is incredibly inconsistent...Cy-like one game and White Sox pitcher-like the next.

He needs to quit all that emotional and gesturing crap he does and focus on pitching.

Don't you think some of his issues last season were due to his contract status? I think this season, he will be more composed. If hes like he was in 2004 when his ERA was pretty good, and gives up less than 70 free passes this season, he will be extremely effective.

[weeghman]

Don't you think some of his issues last season were due to his contract status? I think this season, he will be more composed. If hes like he was in 2004 when his ERA was pretty good, and gives up less than 70 free passes this season, he will be extremely effective.

That has been the regression for the most part. He has been near the bottom (or top depending) in BB for the past 3 years. If he could, like someone has said, get composed he could win a Cy Young.

[metalicubs]

Zambrano has never started good in April as far as I know so I have no idea what to expect at the beginning of the season from him or the rest of our starting staff. We got off to a terrible start last year and then spent the rest of our energy taking over first and hanging on to it. It would be nice to start out in first and cruise for awhile.

[ryno4ever]

Zambrano has never started good in April as far as I know so I have no idea what to expect at the beginning of the season from him or the rest of our starting staff. We got off to a terrible start last year and then spent the rest of our energy taking over first and hanging on to it. It would be nice to start out in first and cruise for awhile.

I am all for Lilly starting the Opening Day.... Z himself has even said he doesn't do well on Opening Day!

[TheBenjamin]

agreed

[cubbyfanforever]

Report: Cubs to Acquire Roberts

Guys ,I came across this on MLB-RUMORS


According to ESPN 1000 in Chicago, the Cubs and Orioles have reached a tentative agreement on a trade that would send Brian Roberts to the Cubs for at least three players. It sounds iffy because no players are known but it is believed that they are holding off on announcing it until this weekends Cubs Convention. The Cubs have been known to save announcements on signings and such till the Convention. Last year, it was the signing of Jeff Samardjiza, so it is possible. Also, with the signing of Jon Lieber it would make sense they would trade a pitcher like Sean Marshall or Sean Gallagher. More on this as it unfolds...

Posted by Eli at 7:40 PM 0 comments...........http://www.mlb-rumors.blogspot.com/............

[BigZ38]

Only 3 players....if this is true it's about time the Orioles stopped trying to rob us.

[TheBenjamin]

very interesting........

again though, I feel bad for DeRo. He played his ass off, and if we do get Roberts (which I do want to happen) he would be without a position

[BigZ38]

very interesting........

again though, I feel bad for DeRo. He played his ass off, and if we do get Roberts (which I do want to happen) he would be without a position

I'm torn on this......Roberts would be a pretty solid pickup for us but DeRosa really proved something last year....HE DESERVES TO START! It's just that he's so versatile and can do so many things.....but I guess he'll be pretty much an everyday player just he'll be playing a different position just about everyday.

[ryno4ever]

I was wondering if this was why we got Leiber......

[weeghman]

very interesting........

again though, I feel bad for DeRo. He played his ass off, and if we do get Roberts (which I do want to happen) he would be without a position

I think Dero will be turned into the supersub he was in Texas. Which, if you think about it, gives soooo many options to lou.

[ryno4ever]

I feel for Dero.... but if this is true, we have one heck of a bench....and a chance for everyone to get regular rest.....

[ryno4ever]

DeRo...however... is not all about it....

from cubs.com:

When DeRosa heard the rumors, he contacted Hendry. The two have talked more than once this winter.

"I'm on the fence with it," DeRosa said Monday. "My personal opinion is that I find it hard to believe a utility man is as important as an everyday player. He's not. Period."

DeRosa said he understands the Cubs aren't down on him but are looking for another left-handed bat. Piniella wants to give players like third baseman Aramis Ramirez, first baseman Derrek Lee and new right fielder Kosuke Fukudome more days off, so DeRosa would rotate at those positions.

"At the same time," DeRosa said, "I find it hard to believe I'm going to get playing time if you acquire a player of that caliber [as Roberts]. You've got Fukudome in right, you've got Aramis at third, you've got Roberts at second, you've got [Alfonso Soriano] in left. Where am I going to play? That was my question [to Hendry], and that was my approach. It's not like you're acquiring another super utility player [like a Ryan Freel], and we can all bounce around and all give each other days off and all find a happy medium."

[TheBenjamin]

just listened to ESPN1000 they didnt mention it, other then Briuce Levine reports that the Cubs and Orioles are still talking about it

[TheBenjamin]

check out this lineup

Roberts
Fukudome
Lee
Soriano
Ram
Soto
Theriot
Pie

Bench

DeRosa
Blanco
Ward
Murton
Fuld

My Best Guess at a pitching staff

Zambrano
Lilly
Hill
Marquis
Lieber

BP

Wuertz
Wood
Marmol
Howry
Eyre
Hart
Dempster

[TheBenjamin]

im still not wild about the short bench, but Lou likes having the extra BP arm

[ryno4ever]

I wouldn't hold our breaths.... on the baltimore Orioles Hangout board:

ESPN 1000 was contacted directly and stated no such thing was reported. Two off-the-wall blog sites were reference, but no one's heard of them here thus no reputation can be gleaned.

This, in my opinion, is an unfounded/false rumor. As a clear violation of the board rules and policies, it won't be tolerated.

[cubbyfanforever]

I'm torn on this......Roberts would be a pretty solid pickup for us but DeRosa really proved something last year....HE DESERVES TO START! It's just that he's so versatile and can do so many things.....but I guess he'll be pretty much an everyday player just he'll be playing a different position just about everyday.

Maybe we can put him at SS.

[TheBenjamin]

I wouldn't hold our breaths.... on the baltimore Orioles Hangout board:




its all message board talk though. Why is once board more reliable then others? One board says its true, and another says its not. Only thing we can count on is that there will be boards that will contradict what another will say.

[TheBenjamin]

Maybe we can put him at SS.


while he has a better bat, i wouldnt be sold on him as an everyday SS. doesnt have the greatest range.

[weeghman]

while he has a better bat, i wouldnt be sold on him as an everyday SS. doesnt have the greatest range.

He will fill in when Theriot struggles though. Which hopefully won't be often. Having option is always a good thing.

[BigZ38]

I wouldn't hold our breaths.... on the baltimore Orioles Hangout board:

I figured the entire thing was false.....I won't believe anything until I see it on an official website.

[weeghman]

I figured the entire thing was false.....I won't believe anything until I see it on an official website.

Any other night I would be annoyed by the speculation but I am a couple beers in. So, for now, I am reveling in the false excitement.

[TheBenjamin]

maybe it is true. look at the Miami Dolphins. reports leaked early that they were hiring Tony Soprano (i know its not his real name, but its close enough). The Phins strongly denied it. A few days later, boom. Its official.

The Os wont admit it until its time, and all the kinks are worked out.

[Bockstock]

check out this lineup

Roberts
Fukudome
Lee
Soriano
Ram
Soto
Theriot
Pie

Bench

DeRosa
Blanco
Ward
Murton
Fuld

My Best Guess at a pitching staff

Zambrano
Lilly
Hill
Marquis
Lieber

BP

Wuertz
Wood
Marmol
Howry
Eyre
Hart
Dempster

Looks good, except Tim Lehey has to be on the roster, which would mean somebody would have to be dealt (Dempster/Marquis, maybe even Wuertz).

I could see Murton's spot being taken by somebody that can play CF and hit lefties.

[TheBenjamin]

Looks good, except Tim Lehey has to be on the roster, which would mean somebody would have to be dealt (Dempster/Marquis, maybe even Wuertz).

I could see Murton's spot being taken by somebody that can play CF and hit lefties.



oops forgot LeHey. He needs to be on the 25 man all year.

Bye Bye Wuertz

[TheBenjamin]

forgot about him. He needs to be on the 25 man all year. Bye Bye Wuertz

[Bockstock]

forgot about him. He needs to be on the 25 man all year. Bye Bye Wuertz

It will probably be Dempster over Wuertz. Hendry has listened to offers on Wuertz in the past and has turned them down. I can't see him trading Wuertz just to squeeze the 25-man.

[TheBenjamin]

i dont know if he has any options left though.

[BigZ38]

Wuertz has been a pretty good middle relief pitcher for us so why get rid of him? I think we should hold on to him.

[TheBenjamin]

might be out of necesity though....... only time shall tell

[dundeecub]

while he has a better bat, i wouldnt be sold on him as an everyday SS. doesnt have the greatest range.

Derosa is at least as good defensively as theriot. As i posted in the other main Roberts thread he deserves a shot at the starting ss slot, especially as theriots offensive grittiness is offset by the fact he will be hitting 7 or 8.

SS G PO A E DP FP lgFP* RF9 lgRF9* Inn
DeRosa 138 149 297 12 66 .974 .970 4.93 4.5 813.7
Theriot 110 129 263 9 57 .978 .975 4.03 4.44 876.0
Roberts 53 85 139 16 26 .933 .973 4.70 4.49 429.0

http://www.fogpog.com/showpost.php?p=40839&postcount=13

[dundeecub]

lineup wise, assuming marshall and cedeno go in the roberts trade

2b Roberts, SS Derosa, 3b Ramirez, Lf Soriano, 1b Lee, Rf Fukudome, C Soto, Cf Pie
Theriot, Murton, Ward, Blanco, Fuld
Z, Lilly, Hill, Marquis, Lieber/Dempster
Howry, Wood, Marmol, Eyre, Lehey, Wuertz, Lieber/Dempster

[TheBenjamin]

I didnt know D-Ro played that many games at SS in his career

[cubbyfanforever]

Derosa is at least as good defensively as theriot. As i posted in the other main Roberts thread he deserves a shot at the starting ss slot, especially as theriots offensive grittiness is offset by the fact he will be hitting 7 or 8.

SS G PO A E DP FP lgFP* RF9 lgRF9* Inn
DeRosa 138 149 297 12 66 .974 .970 4.93 4.5 813.7
Theriot 110 129 263 9 57 .978 .975 4.03 4.44 876.0
Roberts 53 85 139 16 26 .933 .973 4.70 4.49 429.0

http://www.fogpog.com/showpost.php?p=40839&postcount=13

Yes I agree,if we get Roberts,I would love to have DeRo at SS.

[dundeecub]

I didnt know D-Ro played that many games at SS in his career

he was almost exclusively a shortstop in the minors too

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=30691
ss: 349, 2b: 24, 3b: 22

as opposed to theriot

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=14403
2b: 293, ss: 244

you can see that derosas range is actually far superior to theriot

[BigZ38]

I never realized he has so much experience at SS....knowing this now I'd say he'd probably be an upgrade over Theriot.

[TheBenjamin]

sorry Riot, I love ya, but move to the bench

[dundeecub]

I never realized he has so much experience at SS....knowing this now I'd say he'd probably be an upgrade over Theriot.

there is no good reason not to have dero start
(the supersub thing is not a good reason)

[TheBenjamin]

hmmmmm

Roberts
Fukudome
Lee
Soriano
Ramierez
Soto
DeRosa
Pie

or

Roberts
DeRosa
Lee
Soriano
Ramierez
Fukudome
Soto
Pie


I like both

[dundeecub]

just a though, but if his power remains down (which it might), how about lee batting second? hits a lot of doubles and has good obp. still got rammy and soriano in the 3 and 4 slots...

[dundeecub]

oh, btw:
http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/LineupAnalysis.py

cool lineup tool, if you can be bothered jamming all the numbers in...

[Bockstock]

hmmmmm

Roberts
Fukudome
Lee
Soriano
Ramierez
Soto
DeRosa
Pie

or

Roberts
DeRosa
Lee
Soriano
Ramierez
Fukudome
Soto
Pie


I like both

You can probably almost bet on Fukudome batting 4th.

As for "lead-off", either Soriano or Roberts wouldn't bother me. I honestly don't think it's that big of a deal when are looking at total offensive #'s.

[taz57]

My has this thread grown some legs and took off.........

I read tonight that DeRosa is not a happy camper about all the Roberts talk, and the possibility of losing his starting job at 2b. Can't say as I blame him, but if it improves the overall makeup of the team and he could start at SS, maybe he will be OK with it. That would bump Theriot into the super sub role, or DeRosa could fill the backup at 2B, 3B, and RF at which time Theriot would backup SS.

[SkullKey]

The Energizer Bunny thread

[ryno4ever]

It keeps going...and going...well, maybe now it will be dead, as it seems the deal has hit a dead end, for good:

According to a Cubs source, Orioles owner Peter Angelos killed a 7-for-2 trade this week that would have sent second baseman Brian Roberts, an Angelos favorite, and left-handed pitcher Erik Bedard to the Cubs....which I am okay with.... we have DeRo, and other big holes that need filled.....

and now, we need to start a Marlon Byrd thread???

''I don't think we're going to do anything, to be honest with you,'' he said when asked about trading for an infielder. ''If we do, it'll be in the outfield. ... It would be a right-handed bat to help out in center field. I would think that's probably a possibility, as opposed to the other things you all have been hearing about.''

One club source confirmed that possibility would be Texas Rangers outfielder Marlon Byrd, who avoided arbitration this week by agreeing to a one-year, $1.8 million contract.

[BigZ38]

I hope it's dead to be honest...the Orioles are trying to rob us and DeRosa is a stud so why should he lose his job?

[SkullKey]

" .....and now, we need to start a Marlon Byrd thread??? ..... "

I kind of hope it doesn't take off and fly like this one did; this one got hard to follow.

[cubbyfanforever]

We have a huge hole at SS,that should be our concern right now,unless we get Roberts at 2B and put DeRo at SS,now that would be awesome!

[cubbyfanforever]

It keeps going...and going...well, maybe now it will be dead, as it seems the deal has hit a dead end, for good:

...which I am okay with.... we have DeRo, and other big holes that need filled.....

and now, we need to start a Marlon Byrd thread???

I think Angelos is a moron,the Orioles do not have a shot this year,with all the young talent we would send to the Orioles,this guy is nuts,I read even Rich Hill and Pie would be included,What the @#$%^*&!

[HEYHEY]

DEAD DEAL. THERIOT IS OUR SHORTSTOP AND DERO IS OUR 2B LIKE IT OR LEAVE IT.

[weeghman]

I ahve heard conflicting rumors of whether Hill was in the deal or not. I read from the guy at http://cubsrumorsandnews.blogspot.com/ that Hill and Marmol were not included but Pie was. I think the only way we get Bedard is by including Hill. Which I don't think is worth it. Hill could still be better than Bedard. Other than K's they have been somewhat comparable. Unless of course you take into account Bedard pitching in the toughest division in baseball and Hill pitching in, statistically the worst.

[roenick99]

... LIKE IT OR LEAVE IT.

So, what exactly does that mean? If I don't like this, then I can't be a Cubs fan anymore?

[missing23]

So, what exactly does that mean? If I don't like this, then I can't be a Cubs fan anymore?

Nope...what it means is internet posters are BRAVE behind the keyboard...99.9% of them would never say what they type to the other's face.:rolleyes:

[Drew]

If Angelos turned down 7 players, possibly including Pie and Hill, for Roberts and Bedard, then he deserves the losing record that the O's will post this season. Right now Roberts and Bedard might be further along than Hill and Pie, but Baltimore would have gotten five other guys. Also, I think Roberts has pretty much reached the pinnacle of his career. I don't see him getting better. All 7 of the players we would have sent there haven't reached their potential yet. With foresight like this the O's will never be able to compete with the Yankees or Red Sox. Their best bet to catch those guys is to plan for the future. Roberts and Bedard are good, but I'm glad a 7 for 2 deal didn't get done, especially considering who would be amongst the 7 players the Cubs would have dealt.

[roenick99]

This was in the Tribune this afternoon. Sounds like the deal is nothing close to dead. His source is neither with the Cubs or the Orioles, but sounds like MLB itself which means (as he says) that it is up for approval with the league. Interesting...

(Fast) food for thought, MLK edition
By Phil Rogers, 1:43 p.m.

It's barely noon on a school holiday and already I've heard something intriguing. It came from a very highly placed source, which means it is making the rounds of baseball's decision-makers, but officials with both of the teams involved have either downplayed or denied it -- this would be that big bag of Cubs-for-Erik Bedard and Brian Roberts trade.

According to the source, Orioles owner Peter Angelos did shoot this deal down at the end of last week, but the source said that the talks were back on again. Interesting. Very interesting.

Still, the one name to definitely keep in mind with the Cubs is Marlon Byrd. They are having conversations with the Texas Rangers about the center fielder, and this is a deal that could happen fairly quickly, assuming the Cubs are willing to give up some pitching.

The rumor in Texas involved Byrd for Matt Murton, but others say the deal would be Byrd for two or three players, including Murton. The Rangers, like the Orioles, apparently want pitching prospect Sean Gallagher to be in a deal.

Byrd would fill a big need for the Cubs, providing a right-handed-hitting option in center field. If the Cubs do get him, it seems a safe bet that he will get more 2008 at-bats than either Felix Pie (who could wind up going to Baltimore) or Sam Fuld. Byrd doesn't have a big reputation but he hit . 307 for Texas last season while driving in 70 runs (or as many as Alfonso Soriano).

Texas is looking at having Byrd and Milton Bradley flanking newly acquired center fielder Josh Hamilton. But they could fill that spot with a platoon of Murton and Frank Catalanotto or David Murphy.

2. So what's up with the supposed 7-for-2 deal with Bedard and Roberts? The read here is this involves a lot of both posturing and face-saving as the Cubs try to do the impossible -- that is, make a significant trade with the Orioles for players whom owner Peter Angelos has not ordered dumped (i.e., Miguel Tejada).

It makes total sense for the Cubs to pursue both players, not just Roberts. I believe Cubs general manager Jim Hendry has tried to soft sell his interest in hopes of expanding a possible Roberts deal. If Andy MacPhail couldn't get Angelos to sign off on the deal at the end of last week, a combination of frustration and gamesmanship could have led Hendry and Lou Piniella to declare the deal dead at the Cubs' convention. I trust the source who has said it has been revived -- something that could not have happened if Hendry had revealed that Angelos was undercutting MacPhail's authority, which he pledged not to do -- so the question is whether Hendry can balance the needs of the Orioles and Rangers and somehow land Bedard, Roberts and Byrd, maybe even in a three-way deal.

And there's still the question of what to do with Mark DeRosa, if Roberts arrives. Some have said the Cubs are worried about Bedard's "medicals,'' but others around baseball believe he should be fine after being shut down at the end of the season with a strained muscle in his side.

[NeifiPerezMVP2007]

Hey roenick, your avatar reminds me of Jim Cramer from Mad Money!! Looks like hes gonna explode!

[ryno4ever]

Get the trade done or walk away already! This is getting old quick!

[BigZ38]

Take this for what it's worth but mlbtraderumors.com said that the Orioles will decide whether to trade Bedard and Roberts by months end (hopefully).....also it said that Marquis may actually have TRADE VALUE!....and some teams are interested in aquiring him and he might be involved in a trade with Baltimore.......I don't know how much of this is true due to the source but that sounds like a lot of things I like to hear (like maybe this whole thing will end and Marquis maybe being moved).

[weeghman]

Take this for what it's worth but mlbtraderumors.com said that the Orioles will decide whether to trade Bedard and Roberts by months end (hopefully).....also it said that Marquis may actually have TRADE VALUE!....and some teams are interested in aquiring him and he might be involved in a trade with Baltimore.......I don't know how much of this is true due to the source but that sounds like a lot of things I like to hear (like maybe this whole thing will end and Marquis maybe being moved).

I think they have said that the O's would decide by weeks end for multiple weeks. All the speculation is real exciting on Nov. 1st. The middle of December it is still ok. But, by the time we are all just clamoring for baseball, it gets kind of obnoxious.

I still look everyday though. Sadomasochist.

[SkullKey]

" ... they have said that the O's would decide by weeks end for multiple weeks ... "

It just keeps going and going ......

ANGELOS ! Butt the hell out! and let your man (McPhail) try and put togeather a good baseball team for your fans. You obviously know nothing about the game.

[roenick99]

I think they have said that the O's would decide by weeks end for multiple weeks. All the speculation is real exciting on Nov. 1st. The middle of December it is still ok. But, by the time we are all just clamoring for baseball, it gets kind of obnoxious.

I still look everyday though. Sadomasochist.

Yep, slam my nuts in a car door and hand me my Cubs hat. I know exactly what you are talking about.

[roenick99]

" ... they have said that the O's would decide by weeks end for multiple weeks ... "

It just keeps going and going ......

ANGELOS ! Butt the hell out! and let your man (McPhail) try and put togeather a good baseball team for your fans. You obviously know nothing about the game.

Yeah, and hook up our team with a couple of damn good players, too!

[TheBenjamin]

MLBtraderumors.com either takes news from other sites, or throws stuff against teh wall to see if it sticks

[BigZ38]

MLBtraderumors.com either takes news from other sites, or throws stuff against teh wall to see if it sticks

Exactly that's why I tell people to make what they think of it....I don't believe anything they say unless I see it on an official site....

[TheBenjamin]

all these sites are just used for rumors, to help spread them easier. Rotoworld gets most of their rumors from the newspapers, MLBtraderumors gets them from various lesser reliable sources. Either way, take everything you read from anysite with a grain of salt.

[Leprechaun]

all these sites are just used for rumors, to help spread them easier. Rotoworld gets most of their rumors from the newspapers, MLBtraderumors gets them from various lesser reliable sources. Either way, take everything you read from anysite with a grain of salt.

haha very true

most rumor sites are just saying this guy with this paper said this deal is close

i mianly read them to pass time or to see how reliable certain things are...

i admit to reading mlbtraderumors.com daily but i bet only about 30% of the stuff they say on there actually happens

[BigZ38]

i admit to reading mlbtraderumors.com daily but i bet only about 30% of the stuff they say on there actually happens

30% is being generous.

[TheBenjamin]

very generous

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Here's a little update this morning from Rotoworld & a Baltimore writer:

The Baltimore Sun's Jeff Zrebiec writes that the Cubs remain the most likely destination for Brian Roberts, but that Erik Bedard will likely end up in Seattle.
The teams are reportedly discussing a deal that would send pitcher Sean Gallagher and an outfielder to Baltimore, whereas previous reports had the Orioles interested in Ronny Cedeno. The names that the teams have kicked around probably include Matt Murton, 2006 first-round pick Tyler Colvin, or even Felix Pie. Zrebiec also thinks that Bedard will likely end up in Seattle after a deal that centers around Adam Jones.
Source: Baltimore Sun
Related: Felix Pie, Matt Murton, Erik Bedard

[CubsFan23]

I would go for Murton and Gallagher. Both have good upsides but nowhere to really play right now. Though Murton would not have anywhere to play in Baltimore either as they have Markakais and Scott at the corner spots. They really need a CF, so I think the deal will ultimately have to include Pie or Colvin. Though I am sure the O's would clamour for Pie since he has some major league service time and is more major league ready then Colvin. If Pie goes i am sure we will see a deal to bring Byrd in from texas, though I am not sold on Byrd.

[Leprechaun]

i could part ways with gallagher and murton

we have a large surplus of pitchers and murton who i think will be good really has NO spot to even play

[dundeecub]

it would be gallagher and murton plus minor leaguers, if it were just those two it would have been done weeks ago. And i think (although cant really support) that if Colvin were ml ready he would be coming to OUR major league camp. i do wish we had a role for the big murt :(

[TheBenjamin]

Colvin was invited to camp. but i doubt he beats out Pie or Fuld

[CubsFan23]

Colvin was invited to camp. but i doubt he beats out Pie or Fuld


Colvin is not even part of the 40 man roster so he is a longshot at this point. But who knows anything can happen.

[NeifiPerezMVP2007]

..we have a large surplus of pitchers...

Like everyone says always says, "We got too much pitching!!" :D

[TheBenjamin]

too much pitching is always a good ting

[CubsFan23]

Like everyone says always says, "We got too much pitching!!" :D

I would never say we had too much pitching. Such a thing does not exist! In this day and age of waterdowned pitching, you can never have too much.

[BigZ38]

We have a lot of pitching.....It's just I wish we had a little bit better quality of it...I guess you can't always be satisfied.

[TheBenjamin]

yea, better quality is much needed

[CubsFan23]

yea, better quality is much needed


I think if you look at our top 3 match pretty well with most everybody. It is our 4 and 5 spots that worry me.

[TheBenjamin]

thats what i am talking about 4 and 5 scare teh hell out of me

[BigZ38]

thats what i am talking about 4 and 5 scare teh hell out of me

I don't know that I'll worry about one of those spots the first half of the season....but if Leiber does adequate then things should go just fine.

[TheBenjamin]

lets hope so.

I know most teams dont even have 3 quality starters, but id still like to have better pitchers in the 4 and 5 slot

[CubsFan23]

I have a feeling that Marshall will be a pleasant surprise this year as well. If Leiber can be a six inning pitcher and Marshall produces we will have a kick@$$ rotation. But those are big "IFs".

[TheBenjamin]

another IF, from your statement alone.

IF Marshall is still a Cub come Spring Training

[TheBenjamin]

Bedard, Roberts to Cubs still a possibility?
Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 7:26 am EST


While Chicago Cubs manager Lou Piniella pronounced the deal to acquire Baltimore Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts dead, the Boston Globe reports there are still rumors of a potentional blockbuster trade between the Orioles and Cubs.

The Cubs are apparently listening to talk about a deal that would send Baltimore ace Erik Bedard and second baseman Brian Roberts to Chicago for a truckload of younger players/prospects. The Cubs are also entertaining the thought of dealing former Sox farmhand Matt Murton to San Diego.

[dundeecub]

wonderful, can we have a whole 'nother week of the roberts rumors please?!

[CubsFan23]

another IF, from your statement alone.

IF Marshall is still a Cub come Spring Training

Very true.

wonderful, can we have a whole 'nother week of the roberts rumors please?!


We will hear the end of this in 2 ways: The deal gets done or Opening day is here (though we will probably still here it until the trading deadline).

But hey it is always fun to play the what if game.

[weeghman]

Sounds like we can count out Bedard. Upside is we could possibly expedite acquiring Roberts.

According to the Seattle Times, Mariners outfielder Adam Jones is leaving Venezuela to fly to Baltimore to take a physical. Obviously this means a deal is near completion, but for who?: "(Bill Bavasi) called me yesterday and told me the news. I've got to go to Baltimore tomorrow morning and handle things there. I'm the centerpiece of the deal on the Mariners side. It's an honor to get traded for such a highly talented pitcher as Bedard is. He's one of the best. Last year he finished up as arguably one of the top candidates for the Cy Young. He's that good, so for me it's an honor. You know, I like Seattle, but if I am in Baltimore, as I think now I am, I'm going to embrace it and have the best time of my life in Major League Baseball." Since George Sherill has not been told anything, I doubt he is involved. Last season, Bedard went 13-5 with a 3.16 ERA and 221 K before his season was ended short by injury. Yes there is risk bringing him in because scouts think his arm is just about ready to explode, but adding him to the rotation puts them back in contention with the Angels in the AL West. Jones, 22, has hit .230 in 73 major league games for the Mariners, bu this track record suggests that he will be a super star. I can't say I do not disagree with that, but I think we will see what Jones truly has to offer in 2009.

[BigZ38]

Well if Bedard is traded then hopefully this will straighten things with Roberts out quickly....With all the reports that Baltimore wanted to figure out what they were going to do with Bedard first and how they didn't want to trade them both to the same team this should help in speeding up Roberts process.....with that this subject may finally be put to rest.....hopefully.

[CubsFan23]

According to Ken Rosenthal of Foxsports:

The Orioles' trade of Bedard would signal a major reconstruction. Another significant deal involving second baseman Brian Roberts likely would follow. The Cubs remain heavily interested in Roberts, and the Orioles could receive prospects such as pitcher Sean Gallagher and outfielder Felix Pie or veterans such as RHP Jason Marquis and outfielder Matt Murton.



I would rather see Marquis go than Gallagher.

[TheBenjamin]

ok, Bedard looks to have been traded then (if that deal is infact done). Let get Roberts and end this endless talk of Roberts

[TheBenjamin]

Adam Jones-OF-Mariners Jan. 27 - 9:58 pm et

Even though both Adam Jones and his winter ball manager, Luis Sojo, said so, the Orioles are denying the outfielder is on his way to Baltimore for a physical.

Mariners spokesman Tim Hevly confirmed that Jones is returning to the U.S., though he wouldn't confirm it was for a physical. The Orioles are steadfastly denying that any deal is done. "We do not have an agreement with the Mariners," president Andy MacPhail said. However, rumors aboud that the Mariners are sending Jones, Chris Tillman, either George Sherrill or Jeff Clement and a fourth player to Baltimore for Bedard.
Source: Baltimore Sun
Related: Erik Bedard, Orioles


Erik Bedard-S-Orioles Jan. 27 - 9:36 pm et

A high-ranking Orioles official told the Baltimore Sun's Jeff Zrebiec that an Erik Bedard trade hasn't been completed with the Mariners.

This is probably getting done, but it'll be a while longer before either team will comment on the record. Adam Jones told reporters he's flying to Baltimore for a physcial on Monday.
Source: Baltimore Sun
Related: Adam Jones, Mariners

[CubsFan23]

If the Bedard deal is in fact done I think we would see the Roberts deal within a week. Then we can start talking some real baseball in 16 days when pitchers and catchers report.

[Bockstock]

Are you guys working night-shift or living in the Phillipines??

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Buster Olney is reporting the Bedard for Jones + trade could be completed as soon as today.

[TheBenjamin]

I start work at 6 am....... so im usually up at 430

[TheBenjamin]

one report out there is that Roberts will be traded shortly after the Bedard trade is final. They are saying its more then likely for Pie and Galagher. Which means Murton for Byrd is more then likely to follow soon there after

[cubbyfanforever]

one report out there is that Roberts will be traded shortly after the Bedard trade is final. They are saying its more then likely for Pie and Galagher. Which means Murton for Byrd is more then likely to follow soon there after

Texas shot down Murton for Byrd,they want a prospect with the deal,and Orioles would want Cedeno included with the Roberts deal ,they need a SS with Tejada gone.

[Leprechaun]

one report out there is that Roberts will be traded shortly after the Bedard trade is final. They are saying its more then likely for Pie and Galagher. Which means Murton for Byrd is more then likely to follow soon there after

i saw the same report as well saying that baltimore would have these deals finished, staying or going, done by the end of january (thank god im sick of hearing about it)

on that note if we get rid of pie then we NEED to go after a cf player, i am not comfortable by any means with fuld or patterson.

if the murton deal falls thru what about kenny lofton? i know he woudltn be able to start everyday but would be a nice addition being a veteran with a decent bat and a lil speed still left. would be alot less stressfull of a postion in CF with the legs of soriano and fukudome to your sides

so we can almost count out a top 3 starter because this would be the "one or two aggresive trades" that hendry was talking about

[SkullKey]

Are you guys working night-shift or living in the Philippines??

LOL Please Bockstock no more jokes when I'm sipping my coffee ! I can't afford another new keyboard right now. I guess I'll just have to learn to time my sipping better.

[weeghman]

Are you guys working night-shift or living in the Phillipines??

Very Nice

[cubbyfanforever]

Are you guys working night-shift or living in the Phillipines??

HAHAHA! That is too funny,hey maybe INDIA!

[CubsFan23]

Are you guys working night-shift or living in the Phillipines??


Actually I am wprking night shift for right now.

[CubsFan23]

Buster Olney is reporting the Bedard for Jones + trade could be completed as soon as today.

He could not have been more wrong. Ken Rosenthal reported on XM that it looks like Peter Angelos is holding up the trade.

[TheBenjamin]

they just said that he hasnt been given the paper work yet

[TheBenjamin]

FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal believes the Orioles may be upset enough about Adam Jones' comments on the deal to call off the Erik Bedard trade or at least seek additional compensation.

Yeah, there's good reason the Orioles remain in the running for the title of worst run organization in baseball. Either the deal is good enough or it isn't. Who cares if Jones admitted 12 hours ahead of time that he was going to Baltimore for a physical? If Peter Angelos kills the deal as is -- it's believed to currently be a five-for-one including Jones, George Sherrill, Chris Tillman, Adam Butler and Kam Mickolio -- the Mariners should simply move on. Rosenthal believes the Orioles may now be holding out for Carlos Triunfel, who should be untouchable.
Source: FOXSports.com
Related: Adam Jones, Mariners

[BigZ38]

Peter Angelos is an absolute joke of an owner.......He's honestly the worst baseball person I've ever seen.....He's a total idiot and should be no where near a major leauge baseball franchise......I feel sorry for Orioles fans.

[cubbyfanforever]

Peter Angelos is an absolute joke of an owner.......He's honestly the worst baseball person I've ever seen.....He's a total idiot and should be no where near a major leauge baseball franchise......I feel sorry for Orioles fans.

He is a moron,he hires people like Mac F_A_I_L ,but he can't make any decisions to improve the team,the Orioles need to rebuild,they need prospects for the future and that moron gets in the way,S**KS to be an Oriole fan.

[NeifiPerezMVP2007]

Angelos is acting like a fool. I agree, the O's are being run like the organization they are, the laughingstock American League.

[TheBenjamin]

i shutter to think who the laughing stock of the NL is though......

[TheBenjamin]

Adam Jones-OF-Mariners Jan. 29 - 4:08 pm et

Unconfirmed speculation on a Baltimore radio show is that Adam Jones has a degenerative hip condition that's put the Erik Bedard deal on hold.

There's been nothing legitimate anywhere lending this any weight, but since the Baltimore Sun is starting to run with it ever so slightly now, we will as well. As the Sun's Roch Kubatko put it: "Maybe this will prove true later. We'll find out soon enough. But nobody at The Sun would go on a radio show and blurt out this kind of information without being absolutely positive (and obviously reporting it in the paper first). That's dangerous territory, especially when you're possibly impacting a young athlete's reputation and future earnings." Exactly right.
Source: Baltimore Sun
Related: Erik Bedard, Orioles

[ryno4ever]

With the little power struggle going on in the front off ice there in Baltimore.... who in the world is going to want to even attempt to deal with these clowns in the future????? How many times have we heard that a deal is all but done with either Roberts or Bedard only to have Angelos pull the rug out from under McFail's feet (which, by the way, I do think is kinda funny after the BS he put us through, it's nice to see him get a taste of his own medicine, but not necissarily at our expense!)

[ryno4ever]

i shutter to think who the laughing stock of the NL is though......

I was going to say the Marlins.... however, I am finding such sweet pleasure in rubbing into my Cardinal fan co-worker that thier big offseason move was Caesar Izturis!!!!!!!! He tried to argue that they got Troy Glaus... I pointed out it was one degenerating player for another! So, perhaps the cardinals may end up being the laughing stock. I would LOVE for them to end up in last place this year. LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT!

[roenick99]

I was going to say the Marlins.... however, I am finding such sweet pleasure in rubbing into my Cardinal fan co-worker that thier big offseason move was Caesar Izturis!!!!!!!! He tried to argue that they got Troy Glaus... I pointed out it was one degenerating player for another! So, perhaps the cardinals may end up being the laughing stock. I would LOVE for them to end up in last place this year. LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT!

Unfortunately for us, both of those teams have both won the WS in the last 5 years. They are not the laughing stock of anything.

[roenick99]

With the little power struggle going on in the front off ice there in Baltimore.... who in the world is going to want to even attempt to deal with these clowns in the future????? How many times have we heard that a deal is all but done with either Roberts or Bedard only to have Angelos pull the rug out from under McFail's feet (which, by the way, I do think is kinda funny after the BS he put us through, it's nice to see him get a taste of his own medicine, but not necissarily at our expense!)

This is what you can refer to as Karma killing two birds with one stone. It bites him in the ass and we have to suffer as a result. Go figure...

[Bockstock]

Unfortunately for us, both of those teams have both won the WS in the last 5 years. They are not the laughing stock of anything.

Took the words right out of my mouth

[TheBenjamin]

thats why i didnt want to know who the laughign stock of the NL was

[Bockstock]

This is what you can refer to as Karma killing two birds with one stone. It bites him in the ass and we have to suffer as a result. Go figure...

I see this situation similar to the Seinfeld episode where George Constanza (despite his bumbling incompetence) finds himself in a position where any work he actually gets done is offset by his stupid boss.

[TheBenjamin]

lol, i think i remember that episode

[TheBenjamin]

The Erik Bedard-to-Seattle trade could be announced later Monday or on Tuesday, according to multiple reports.

The Baltimore Sun agrees that it's just the physicals standing in the way and maybe only the one for Adam Jones. The Orioles are expected to get Jones, George Sherrill, Chris Tillman, Kam Mickolio and Tony Butler from the Mariners for Bedard.
Source: Baltimore Sun
Related: Adam Jones, Mariners




so Roberts trade may soon follow

[CubsFan23]

The Erik Bedard-to-Seattle trade could be announced later Monday or on Tuesday, according to multiple reports.

The Baltimore Sun agrees that it's just the physicals standing in the way and maybe only the one for Adam Jones. The Orioles are expected to get Jones, George Sherrill, Chris Tillman, Kam Mickolio and Tony Butler from the Mariners for Bedard.
Source: Baltimore Sun
Related: Adam Jones, Mariners




so Roberts trade may soon follow

I hope so. It would be nice to put the trade rumours to bed. It would also be nice if we do get Roberts to do so before ST.

[TheBenjamin]

agreed 100%

[SkullKey]

" ..... It would be nice to put the trade rumours to bed. ..... "

It's baaaaack ! ! (... just keeps going and going and going .....)

(How long before we learn that the Orioles and, say, the Cubs are talking about a trade for (*gasp*) Brian Roberts.)

It looks like it's really going to happen this time (*yawn*). If I were Andy MacPhail I'd finish this deal and resign (no doubt the Twins, Astros and/or Cardinals will be shopping for a General Manager soon). Clearly Angelos is a fool.

[TheBenjamin]

winner winner, chicken dinner

[Leprechaun]

haha no doubt to that... i feel bad for oriole fans

[Bockstock]

haha no doubt to that... i feel bad for oriole fans

I don't

They've won the WS since I've been alive

[Leprechaun]

true... but as long as angelos is around they never will

[NeifiPerezMVP2007]

true... but as long as angelos is around they never will

Very true!

[cubbyfanforever]

Brian Roberts Rumors
Some of you are sick of it, some of you are clamoring for any kind of tidbit. Here's the latest on the Brian Roberts to the Cubs possibility.

Chris De Luca of the Chicago Sun-Times says Roberts is "back atop the Cubs' wish list." He says the Cubs are hopeful about their chances, but believes it would take most of Spring Training to hammer out the details. The Orioles' reported insistence on Felix Pie might lessen now that they have Adam Jones. Seems that if these talks fall apart, it could be because the Orioles decided to extend Roberts' contract and keep him as the face of the franchise (a long shot).
Bruce Miles of the Daily Herald says the Cubs remain interested and GM Jim Hendry hopes to chat with Andy MacPhail before Wednesday. Miles' source indicates that the Cubs and Orioles haven't really gotten into specifics on the Roberts trade talks. Miles doesn't expect Pie or Tyler Colvin to be involved.

[cubbyfanforever]

No guarantee Cubs can deal for Roberts
By Bruce Miles | Daily Herald Staff Contact writerPublished: 2/8/2008 4:53 PM | Updated: 2/9/2008 12:05 AMSend To:
Here is more fron The Chicago Tribune article............
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(2) | read | post Now that the Baltimore Orioles finally have traded pitcher Erik Bedard to Seattle, can a deal that brings second baseman Brian Roberts from Baltimore to the Cubs be far behind?

Yes.

After weeks of wrangling, Orioles president Andy MacPhail finally moved his prized lefty to the Mariners on Friday.

Getting a Bedard deal done was Job 1 for MacPhail, who would like to move Roberts and continue the Orioles' rebuilding project.

Cubs general manager Jim Hendry, reached Friday while traveling, chose not to comment on Roberts, as has been his practice.

However, the Cubs are still interested in the switch-hitting Roberts, and Hendry hopes to talk with MacPhail (his former boss with the Cubs) before pitchers and catchers report for spring training next Wednesday.

The Cubs' interest in Roberts goes back at least to baseball's winter meetings in early December, and that fact alone should signal that getting a deal done with the slow-moving Orioles won't be easy.

Contrary to popular belief, knowledgeable Cubs sources say the two teams have not gotten serious about discussing specific players the Orioles would want for Roberts.

It's highly unlikely the Cubs will trade center-field prospect Felix Pie or former top draft pick Tyler Colvin for Roberts. But a package possibly involving pitcher Sean Marshall or Sean Gallagher plus another player seems more in the ballpark.

During the Cubs convention last month, manager Lou Piniella said he didn't believe the Cubs would get Roberts. Piniella also expressed his pleasure with incumbent second baseman Mark DeRosa, who would be moved to a super-utility role if Roberts comes to Chicago.

At this point, Hendry also seems resigned to moving on without Roberts if he and MacPhail can't agree on a deal.

[HEYHEY]

Stupid trade.Always was and still will be even if they make it.