Blake DeWitt left field

[LeeEila's/rant]

Quade must have been so impressed by Blakes stellar play at third last night , that he thinks he will be a better option than Soriano in the field. It may be a test of Zambrano's anger management training . I know Soriano has no clue on how to play baseball but really ?

This is quickly turning funny bad ! :D

[LeeEila's/rant]

We dodged the bullet , they banged the game .

[Bockstock]

eh, I'm not really paying attention anymore.

The Cubs had a really good chance to rebuild between the end of 2009 and now and it seems all they've cared about is finishing above 500 (such lofty goals!!!).

let me know when Brett Jackson gets called up and doesn't sit 3/4 games on the bench like Colvin and Castillo are.

Add on top of that most of the top propects from last year are hurt or sucking bad. Simpson looks terrible in low A.

[LeeEila's/rant]

Ryno DeWitt is really showing his great value now !!!!

In another week everyone will be wanting Soriano back in left for his better defense !!!!

LOL !! This dude is a turd !!

[LeeEila's/rant]

I love DeWitty ( quadifed ) 2 outs men on first and second , one via walk and , he comes up first pitch hacking !!!

[AceCubbie]

Not to be a huge DeWitt defender, but it's been nice to see that he can handle LF in a pinch. Knowing that he can play all over the diamond going forward will be useful in constructing the bench next year.

[LeeEila's/rant]

Not to be a huge DeWitt defender, but it's been nice to see that he can handle LF in a pinch. Knowing that he can play all over the diamond going forward will be useful in constructing the bench next year.

If someone held a gun to a baseball manager's head and made them take a person from the stands and play a position on the field , he would put them in left field . And i am willing to bet they would do just as good as DeWitty .

[Bockstock]

I'd like to see Bryan LaHair given a chance to play if we're going to stick people like Brad Snyder and Blake DeWitt out in the OF.

Wait are we talking about the Iowa Cubs or the Chicago Cubs??

[LeeEila's/rant]

I'd like to see Bryan LaHair given a chance to play if we're going to stick people like Brad Snyder and Blake DeWitt out in the OF.

Wait are we talking about the Iowa Cubs or the Chicago Cubs??

You won't . Remember this is the " prove Hendry right " year .

I have my suspicions that Barney is not really hurt but needed to open space for DeWitt and Baker time.

DeWitt is playing left again and his beard is playing short-center !

[Bockstock]

You won't . Remember this is the " prove Hendry right " year .

I have my suspicions that Barney is not really hurt but needed to open space for DeWitt and Baker time.



Well, considering Baker is better than Barney it's not a bad idea.

296/316/343
235/278/235

Those are Barney's batting lines the last two months. I know Cub fans like gritty white guys who play the game the right way or whatever, but those numbers would hardly hold water for a defense-first shortstop on an AL team.

[LeeEila's/rant]

Well, considering Baker is better than Barney it's not a bad idea.

296/316/343
235/278/235

Those are Barney's batting lines the last two months. I know Cub fans like gritty white guys who play the game the right way or whatever, but those numbers would hardly hold water for a defense-first shortstop on an AL team.

So you agree that trying to put together a team this year that doesn't suck so bad , is the right way to go ?

We should be looking to the future and finding out if any of these guys fit into our future plans . We know what Baker is and is an easy call .

The problem is this freaking organization has no plan for the future !!

I take offence to the whole gritty white guy crap . It is intimating that people are who like the white guy is racist . Where I find it as the person making that statement holds the opinion that blacks are predisposed to athletic pursuits. What reason is that Al ? Was it the intentional breeding of slaves or some idea of evolutionary mutation ?

[Bockstock]

So you agree that trying to put together a team this year that doesn't suck so bad , is the right way to go ?

We should be looking to the future and finding out if any of these guys fit into our future plans . We know what Baker is and is an easy call .

The problem is this freaking organization has no plan for the future !!

No, but Barney is not the 2b/ss of the future, either. His batting line looks identical to his very pedastrian line in the minors. he's a cheap Aaron Miles off the bench with better defense.

Frenchy should be playing more, but the Cubs don't need really need to bring up younger guys until September. I'm not a fan of activating a prospect's MLB service clock until you have to. The cubs maybe have a handful of hitters that deserve a callup; Flaherty, Spencer, Clevenger, Ridling; that's about it and those guys are fringe prospects at best; maybe Flaherty might still be considered in the Cubs Top 10.

Sorry, but the Cubs have no player in their system like a Hosmer, Rizzo, Lawrie, or Moustakas, so it doesn't really matter they are not calling up prospects at this point. If the Cubs had actual high-end talent in the high minor leagues it would be different, but they don't.

[LeeEila's/rant]

Right , Blake DeWitt is the future .

Barney is 2' shorter and 5lbs heavier than Nyjer Morgan . They play the same damn game with the same skill set but Barney doesn't share Morgan's hue so we count him out in his rookie YEAR !

I guess the first place Brewers like those 4 A players , they do have McGehee at third.

Ohh , that is last year team MVP McGehee !

[Bockstock]

Barney is 2' shorter and 5lbs heavier than Nyjer Morgan . They play the same damn game with the same skill set but Barney doesn't share Morgan's hue so we count him out in his rookie YEAR !



Wow talk about generalizations

a) Morgan has a far better walk rate, is faster, and a far better baserunner, and hits far more power. Show me some numbers that show Barney is a similar player. Barney's skillset and ceiling is closer to Aaron Miles, or maybe Neifi Perez since Neifi had better defense

b) I'm not discounting Barney based on his rookie year. It based on his offensive performance in the minors as a polished College level hitter, which was mediocre at all measures at almost every level. If people thought he would keep playing at his level earlier in the year they obviously didn't pay attention to him in the minors.

c) McGeHee always seems to be your comeback point for discussions like this. Get over it. Besides he's been horrid this year (worse than the whipping boy Ramirez)

I never said DeWitt is the future. But he's not that much worse than Barney considering they are the SAME AGE.

Blake DeWitt - DOB 8/20/1985
Darwin BArney - DOB 11/8/1985

They are both similar hitters in my opinion. Actually DeWitt might be the better offensive player. The DL stint couldn't have come at a better time for Barney, as his offense was going down the toilet for the second straight month and he needed time off.

[LeeEila's/rant]

Judging by what we are learning from our minor league players , all numbers coming from the system don't mean crap.

It is obvious that there are no defined roles , fundamentals are ignored and there is no such thing as situational hitting being taught .

They are being taught to be " aggressive at the plate " , all that does is put up some quick avg. numbers and nothing else. It may work if you are like the Sox and just use your minors to off set the acquisition price of ready player but worthless if you plan on building from the farm.

[Banks]

I know Cub fans like gritty white guys who play the game the right way

I'm not sure Barney has any white in him...he's Korean and Japanese.

[Banks]

Lee:

You are one of those guys who projects all his frustration toward something(The Cubs play, this season), on a paticular, small aspect of it(Blake DeWitt), for which you have bias, negative feelings for. Blake DeWitt has not been a problem on this team...get over it!

Darwin Barney is NOT an everyday player... He's a super utility player, off the bench. What in his .321 OBP, .359 SLG, .679 OPS, has Cubs fans creaming their pants?

Sam Fuld's line: .234/.284/.354/.639

Casey McGehee's line: .230/.287/.326/.612

[LeeEila's/rant]

Your hero Soto's line .220 .307 .384

what's the freaking difference ?

Look at the lines on these Cub games that have been won. They have been a result of good pitching good defense and speed on the bases forcing errors and great situational hitting .
Putting in Johnson as a defense replacement , changed that game yesterday .

Baseball is returning to that of the 70's and the first team that rebuilds in that fashion will dominate.

As for You are one of those guys who projects all his frustration toward something(The Cubs play, this season), on a paticular, small aspect of it(Blake DeWitt), for which you have bias, negative feelings for. Blake DeWitt has not been a problem on this team...get over it!

WHO THE F**K are you kidding ??? You have beat on a back up catcher who has proven himself every time he has been tested for how freaking long ????

[Banks]

Your hero Soto's line .220 .307 .384

what's the freaking difference ?

Look at the lines on these Cub games that have been won. They have been a result of good pitching good defense and speed on the bases forcing errors and great situational hitting .
Putting in Johnson as a defense replacement , changed that game yesterday .

Baseball is returning to that of the 70's and the first team that rebuilds in that fashion will dominate.

As for WHO THE F**K are you kidding ??? You have beat on a back up catcher who has proven himself every time he has been tested for how freaking long ????

Soto has been injured...watch his line at the end of the season...

Only you couldn't understand the difference... Hill is an awful player, and takes up a spot on the roster that could be occupied by a good, young catcher(Castillo). Oh, and because you BLOW Hill. You wanted him moved to 3B to "keep his bat in the lineup"...that's why!

[LeeEila's/rant]

You are an idiot . I have searched your post and still have yet to find one that educates . Every post you made on prediction to player values to trades , are complete idiocy !!
Wrong wrong wrong and wrong ,

Soto is always injured , but I guess he is the only one that ever gets a pass. You keep blowing Soto's pipe.

[Bockstock]

Judging by what we are learning from our minor league players , all numbers coming from the system don't mean crap.

It is obvious that there are no defined roles , fundamentals are ignored and there is no such thing as situational hitting being taught .

They are being taught to be " aggressive at the plate " , all that does is put up some quick avg. numbers and nothing else. It may work if you are like the Sox and just use your minors to off set the acquisition price of ready player but worthless if you plan on building from the farm.

what are you talking about in terms of throwing out minor league numbers??

Barney - minor league numbers suggst high-rate contact hitter, no walks, no power, needs to rely on BA for offensive production-> what has happened??

Colvin - won't be a MLB hitter unless he improves his walk rate, improves his contact rate, and cuts down on strikeouts -> what has happened??

I don't see anything from these two guys (using a small sample size) that shows how using their minor league numbers to predict MLB performance has been wrong so far. Barney's line has predictably regressed to his minor league average after his second go-round against teams and pitchers and they know how to approach him.

Guess what, I don't necessarily disagree the cubs have been ignoring plate approach for a long time. I thought bells would go off when the Cubs led the league in offense in 2008 and led the league in walks, but I guess not.

[LeeEila's/rant]

They do not tool the players to take advantage of the skill set they have when they enter the minors. There are numerous examples , Theriot - switch hitter try , Fontenot - trying to turn him to contact hitter , Barney - being pressed to be run producer , Colvin - pushed to pull the ball . I think that is what happened to Colvin .

In the minors , they should be in order with the expected role and not moved around in the order no matter how they hit. In the minors , if the guy is being tooled for a number 4 hitter don't move him up if he is hitting like a 2 hitter. Keep him there and work his skill to fit that role.

Castro will be a 4 hitter . He will get much bigger and will probably end up in center or third base .

[Bockstock]

In the minors , they should be in order with the expected role and not moved around in the order no matter how they hit. In the minors , if the guy is being tooled for a number 4 hitter don't move him up if he is hitting like a 2 hitter. Keep him there and work his skill to fit that role.

Castro will be a 4 hitter . He will get much bigger and will probably end up in center or third base .

I generally disagree with that approach, especially since only a small number of players will reach the majors anyway.

The majority of your better prospects are going to be 6/7/8 hitters anyway in the majors. I'd rather they just focus on getting the best prospects the most PA in the minor, focusing on working the count and drawing walks; at least until they are in the high minors. Like you said, some of these guys are going to pack on 10-20 pounds anyway; to try and prognosticate where they will hit in the majors when they are 2+ years away is a waste of resources.

[LeeEila's/rant]

I never said DeWitt is the future. But he's not that much worse than Barney considering they are the SAME AGE.

Blake DeWitt - DOB 8/20/1985
Darwin BArney - DOB 11/8/1985

They are both similar hitters in my opinion. Actually DeWitt might be the better offensive player. The DL stint couldn't have come at a better time for Barney, as his offense was going down the toilet for the second straight month and he needed time off.


I do understand that in your fantasy baseball vision of real baseball there is no such thing as defense but , I will try to put it in your language .

Blake has a -2.9 fld and a stellar -45.6 UZR/150 ( hiding him in left is the only thing saving him from his -87.4 of last year ) and is a -.2 below replacement level
Barney is a .2 Fld and 140.6 UZR and .8 above replacement

That is a hell of a difference , basically Blake would have to be hitting .420 with a slugging of .860 to make up his loss in the field and hit above Barney !

If a player plays nine innings he may have four at bats. Being that the player is playing defence more wouldn't it be important to a player valuation ?

[AceCubbie]

I do understand that in your fantasy baseball vision of real baseball there is no such thing as defense but , I will try to put it in your language .

Blake has a -2.9 fld and a stellar -45.6 UZR/150 ( hiding him in left is the only thing saving him from his -87.4 of last year ) and is a -.2 below replacement level
Barney is a .2 Fld and 140.6 UZR and .8 above replacement

That is a hell of a difference , basically Blake would have to be hitting .420 with a slugging of .860 to make up his loss in the field and hit above Barney !

If a player plays nine innings he may have four at bats. Being that the player is playing defence more wouldn't it be important to a player valuation ?

Defensive metrics are wildly erratic (just look at the leaders at various positions from year to year), and that's a pretty small sample size on Barney.

Barney is clearly the vastly superior defensive player. But it's not a stretch to suggest that, over the next five years, DeWitt could outproduce him so much at the plate to make him more valuable. DeWitt could also get better defensively.

The point is, they're both still just 25. A lot can happen.

[Bockstock]

Defensive metrics are wildly erratic (just look at the leaders at various positions from year to year), and that's a pretty small sample size on Barney.

.

Right on Ace, those same metrics said Soriano had one of the best defensive ranges in the league for OF in 07/08.

You're totally misconstruing my words, Lee. I don't mind Barney. He's a great player to have for cheap and under cost-control. He just isn't the superstar or the offensive presence people think he is. He's probably where Theriot was in 06/07.

[LeeEila's/rant]

I can just see the future of baseball being more like it in the past 40 years than the last 20. Power number across the board are down , home runs , doubles even bat speed. Your lumbering teams are all struggling. Hell , the AL will do away with the pinch hitter in the next few years. Economics will dictate these kind of players being sought out . The future is 70's style baseball, solid pitching innings eaters , timely hitting in set up situations with good speed on the bags to force plays. You are going to need fast guys with great gloves and smart base running .
The first team that organizes themselves in such a way will get a huge jump on everyone else. My money says it will be the Yankees ,

[LeeEila's/rant]

Right on Ace, those same metrics said Soriano had one of the best defensive ranges in the league for OF in 07/08.

You're totally misconstruing my words, Lee. I don't mind Barney. He's a great player to have for cheap and under cost-control. He just isn't the superstar or the offensive presence people think he is. He's probably where Theriot was in 06/07.

Ahh , but offencive stats are holey and true , if they make your point ?

Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable.


Mark Twain The metrics people are taking a beating this year , Oakland collapse and flip over to more conventional scouting to Adam Dunn and other stat donkeys failing .

Money Ball comes out in September and may be shown to not the be all it is thought to be by then. :eek:

[Banks]

Ahh , but offencive stats are holey and true , if they make your point ?

The metrics people are taking a beating this year , Oakland collapse and flip over to more conventional scouting to Adam Dunn and other stat donkeys failing .

Money Ball comes out in September and may be shown to not the be all it is thought to be by then. :eek:

Which retarded point to examine first...Which retarded point to examine first...

Offensive stats are concrete... it's people who can make them bias. You can't lie about "hits" runs" home runs" etc... However, defensive stats are made through large amounts of human judgement... NOT concrete, finite compositions. There are HUGE flaws in the defensive metric system!

Next, Oakland has ot changed a thing. Stop making things up. Moneybll has worked for the Ryas, Oakland... and is deepley rooted in large payrolls teams like the Red Sox, who value things like OBP heavily. Get a clue!

[LeeEila's/rant]

Hey mister 87 wins , the same flaws in the defensive stats are in the offensive stats. The main problem is it views hitting from a vacumn and does not take in other considerations as in what order , who is hitting in front or behind the number of pitches seen before the hitter approaches the plate.

[Bockstock]

Ahh , but offencive stats are holey and true , if they make your point ?

The offensive stats are based off of actual tangible results: plate appearnaces, walks, extra base hits, etc.. If you don't understand how defensive metrics or don't understand how are derived and differences between the offensive and defensive metrics, I suggest you don't use them. Like any developing statistics field, defensive metrics have only just been developed and are constantly being improved.

The metrics people are taking a beating this year , Oakland collapse and flip over to more conventional scouting to Adam Dunn and other stat donkeys failing .

umm, Lee I don't think you understand the point.... the A's don't try to compete every year, they don't have the financial resources to do so. In fact, nobody said that 'moneyball' is an end all baseball philosophy except for it's critics.

[Bockstock]

Hey mister 87 wins , the same flaws in the defensive stats are in the offensive stats. The main problem is it views hitting from a vacumn and does not take in other considerations as in what order , who is hitting in front or behind the number of pitches seen before the hitter approaches the plate.

Except these stastics have proven to be correlated significantly to a team's overall offensive performance because they relate to so many other things.

Working the count,taking walks = getting better pitches to hit = longer innings = getting higher pitch counts earlier in the game = getting to teams mediocre middle relievers. Just like the Cubs 2008 offense.

Really, its' pretty simple math. The Red Sox are executing it brilliantly this year.

[LeeEila's/rant]

Except these stastics have proven to be correlated significantly to a team's overall offensive performance because they relate to so many other things.

Working the count,taking walks = getting better pitches to hit = longer innings = getting higher pitch counts earlier in the game = getting to teams mediocre middle relievers. Just like the Cubs 2008 offense.

Really, its' pretty simple math. The Red Sox are executing it brilliantly this year.
Simple math that ignores baseball approach and traditions in pitching.
When they start subtracting in calculating OBP for a NL 8th hitter , I will have more faith in them.

You are dead ass wrong if you think they are using it alone in their system. They had the guy ( I don't recall his name ) from the Red Sox on the radio , one of the founders of baseball perspectives , I am sure you know who i am talking about , and he said " anyone who uses metrics as a single evaluation of player production is a damn fool " . He went on to say they use it to back up and double check on what traditional scouting tells them. It is only supplemental and not the main factor.

It is obvious that you are majoring in statistics and are pressing to increase the relevance of your chosen field and will argue to the death to make sure of it. You may even be working on your doctorate thesis on the speculation of becoming a baseball expert using mathematical calculations and never once actually observing a game.
I have heard of odder thesis . My cousin earned his on Elvis and his ascension to a religious deity. He recorded stories of the ' ghost of Elvis " being credited with saving lives to saving peoples marriages .

[Bockstock]

Learn to read before you start insulting others.

I said in this thread or one of the other recents ones statistics are not an end-all approach, but ignoring them completeley is a dead-end approach. Hendry is a 'traditional scout'. How is that working out??

I really don't give a rats ass what you postulate my field is, you'll always be wrong.

Why are you even bringing up personal insults anyway??? You're as bad as you claim Banks is with that last paragraph. I could give a rats ass about what third party strangers think about my baseball IQ. Pretty pathetic.

[LeeEila's/rant]

If you don't understand how defensive metrics or don't understand how are derived and differences between the offensive and defensive metrics, I suggest you don't use them

Who tossed the first insult here ???

Ok to call me stupid i guess .

[LeeEila's/rant]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2640

This is an article that explains what I have been trying to say is my problem with some offensive stats .

It is much more intelligently presented than my uncomprehending mind could ever verbalize .

[AceCubbie]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2640

This is an article that explains what I have been trying to say is my problem with some offensive stats .

It is much more intelligently presented than my uncomprehending mind could ever verbalize .

Some good points in that article; kind of surprising to see it's from seven years ago.

[LeeEila's/rant]

I would put Campana on the bus with Blake DeWitt , with Cubs that can't play baseball.

When Quadimodo put him in center , I was screaming at my TV. Why not put him in left and leave Reed in center ?

[BigZ38]

I haven't been on this board in a long time and this thread is an example why, too much personal bashing. This place used to be fun to come to, but now everyone bashes everyone. Bockstock at least keeps it together and doesn't have to go into full out rage mode when talking about something. In terms of this thread, Blake DeWitt, didn't realize he was the same age as Barney, I think he can produce for this team, not like we're winning so why not let him play and get some AB's.

[Bockstock]

since this has turned into the hodgepodge, everyone spill their guts and take their @#$@# out on others thread I thought I would post this here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/taiwan-easterling-signs-baseball-deal-with-chicago-cubs-gives-up-final-final-year-of-football/2011/07/01/AGzNqVtH_story.html?wprss=rss_sports

Apparently the Marlins (a team that knows something about scouting and talent) drafted him in the top 10 last year. could be another late round steal for the Cubs like McNutt, Struck, and Beeler